News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Dutch schools must stop using Google's email and cloud du... by yosito on Friday July 22, 2022 @06:03AM (#32190343)
I cannot for the life of me understand why public education institutions everywhere don't use Linux and open source software. For things like writing papers and doing research, Linux is more than enough. Plus it would give students a head start into understanding how computers actually work, which is arguably the most crucial skill for students today.
Re:Dutch schools must stop using Google's email and cloud du... by jenny91 on Friday July 22, 2022 @07:05AM (#32190668)
Because Microsoft has spent billions on lobbying and spreading FUD in every educational institution and government across the world ranging from national to local governments to convince them that Windows and Office are the only usable suite of tools. So Word documents are now the lingua franca in the office.
Re:Dutch schools must stop using Google's email and cloud du... by EUROCARE on Friday July 22, 2022 @07:43AM (#32190905)
Well, once upon a time, I decided to break through the FUD, and convinced my local school to try teaching on Linux.

Problem is, after three months of work, I wasn't able to reliably deploy the OS to a room of computers and connect it to the school network - even though I worked as a Linux server admin before that. Every single computer (all the same, with serial number one after the other) had a different set of issues that made it completely unusable. Many of ones I got kinda working got broken after a few rounds of updates.

Windows just worked right after installation. The year of Linux desktop is still not there.

Re:Dutch schools must stop using Google's email and cloud du... by dijit on Friday July 22, 2022 @08:21AM (#32191163)
Interesting. Took me 20 minutes to fire up an installation of 50 machines in a company in 2012.

Those machines ran without fault for multiple years until I had to add some additional support for caching the NFS mounts because we had added so many clients after the initial installation that we were overloading our NAS.

No hardware errors for sure. But these were desktops (not of uniform origin).

Windows machines on the other hand were a bit more painful, every single one had to be hand enrolled to the sambav4 “AD” (we didn’t have AD) and the instructions never worked the same way twice.

So annoying.

Re:Dutch schools must stop using Google's email and cloud du... by EUROCARE on Friday July 22, 2022 @08:23AM (#32191176)
My own desktop also works like a charm with Linux, but that changes nothing about the problems I encountered at the school.

Yeah I can imagine that not having AD makes things more complicated, but once you have it, it works very well on Windows.

Not being able to reliably connect to AD was one of the failures I had with this classroom.

Re:Dutch schools must stop using Google's email and cloud du... by dijit on Friday July 22, 2022 @08:26AM (#32191194)
It’s a really unfortunate set of circumstances that you need to run a Microsoft product for authentication in order to have a reasonable experience with the Microsoft operating system.

Especially because that Microsoft product (AD) is usually the hardest thing to integrate with from other operating systems; and is contingent on owning all user accounts (and usually means you have to use their email systems and file sharing systems).

Quite a lot of lock-in for a base level of user experience.

But I guess that’s OK if you are a shareholder. :)

Re:Dutch schools must stop using Google's email and cloud du... by EUROCARE on Friday July 22, 2022 @08:29AM (#32191216)
My workplace MacBook has zero issues with working on AD-based network...
Re:Dutch schools must stop using Google's email and cloud du... by dijit on Friday July 22, 2022 @08:38AM (#32191274)
That's a very modern advancement, was not the case in 2014 (ask me how I know).

I definitely wouldn't discount the amount of effort that Apple has put into that.

Try doing it with linux or with OSX Mountain Lion.

Re:Dutch schools must stop using Google's email and cloud du... by EUROCARE on Friday July 22, 2022 @08:40AM (#32191288)
Yeah, I bet it's been a lot of work. But that just underlines my point - you can't expect people to reinstall their school computers if it requires changing their entire network to something nobody there understands and the users (teachers of subjects other than computers) don't want it.

The thing is, people (admin and users) are quite happy with the MS stuff - it's not perfect and costs a lot, but it mostly works without too much setup work.

Re:Dutch schools must stop using Google's email and cloud du... by dijit on Friday July 22, 2022 @09:11AM (#32191522)
The solution then is to just give Microsoft control and money? For eternity?

Nah. I’ll pass.

I detest ecosystem lock-in like this. :)

Especially from foreign entities.

Re:Dutch schools must stop using Google's email and cloud du... by EUROCARE on Friday July 22, 2022 @09:21AM (#32191620)
Oh no, that's definitely not a solution, but at least until someone comes up with software that is at least comparable, Microsoft is what we're stuck with.
Re:Dutch schools must stop using Google's email and cloud du... by dijit on Sunday July 24, 2022 @10:45AM (#32213957)
I saw a topic come up on macsysadmin that you might be interested in: https://www.reddit.com/r/macsysadmin/comments/w6tt99/sysadmi...
Re:Dutch schools must stop using Google's email and cloud du... by danieldk on Friday July 22, 2022 @06:12AM (#32190391)
For things like writing papers and doing research, Linux is more than enough.

This is simply false. A lot of fields use specialized software that is only available on Windows and sometimes macOS. For instance, my wife works in neurolinguistics where most standard software for doing things like analyzing EEGs is for Windows.

However, I agree that this may be true in other branches of education. E.g. in our daughter's primary school they use Chromebooks. They are used as glorified 'web terminals'. I can see why a mutable Linux distribution would be awful from a maintenance perspective, but an immutable Linux system like Fedora Silverblue would probably work as well as ChromeOS.

This is also a failing of the Dutch government and the EU, leaving things to the market, rather than taking initiative and making a standardized education platform.

Re:Dutch schools must stop using Google's email and cloud du... by alaric410 on Friday July 22, 2022 @06:39AM (#32190523)
My field (theoretical physics) has the opposite problem. Almost all tools support only Linux but university infrastructure and incoming students are Linux-illiterate. A Linux strategy would greatly improve the quality of education.