News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Giving a shit as a service by at-fates-hands on Tuesday July 12, 2022 @02:40PM (#32074058)
From what I know, executives appreciate people being honest with them and not constantly trying to sell them on something. OP was honest and didn't try to sell them something they didn't need - something people in executives positions really appreciate and remember.

Case in point:

I remember working on a project that was taking a long time to get stuff done. One day, I took lunch in our project room and was there with another junior dev as we were both trying to finish a few things up and working and eating lunch.

Suddenly in walks three older gentlemen in suits. They start looking at all the stuff (charts, metrics, designs, etc) we have posted up around the room and start talking and pointing to some charts. I kindly ask them if there's something I can help them with.

They walk over and introduce themselves. Two are executive VP's of the department we're building the app for. The other is a senior VP who is showing them what we do. I start explaining how the progress is going, "Well, Bob, its really all rainbows and unicorns right now. If we can get server A talking to server B, it will be even better."

Exec A puts his hand and I stop talking. Looks at me and says, "Atfateshands, tell me honestly how the project is going. I didn't come down here for a sales presentation, tell me honestly what your thoughts are."

That evolved into a 30 min talk about what I thought was holding the project back and possibly transitioning out of some the tech that was kind of forced on the project to a better framework that would speed up building this app. I stood at a whiteboard and quickly ran the numbers for them showed them it wasn't too late to pivot.

They thanked me for my time and left. I figured nothing would come of it. Then a few days later, the project manager comes to me and says, "You know how you wanted to pivot to that new JS Framework? You got the green light. Let's get started ASAP, ok?" The same three guys showed up about a month later, and pulled me outside the room to thank me for my honesty and not just telling them what they wanted to hear and believed that pivoting to the tech I recommended essentially saved the entire project from getting scrapped. Because of all the delays we were having, they were discussing the possibilities of just shutting the project down in the next few weeks when they visited our room that day. The most senior VP also told me in the future not to wait around before speaking up.

It was a pretty eye opening experience, but gave me a really valuable lesson.

Re:Giving a shit as a service by deanCommie on Tuesday July 12, 2022 @04:56PM (#32075574)
> "You know how you wanted to pivot to that new JS Framework? You got the green light. Let's get started ASAP, ok?"

It sounds like the PM also wanted to pivot. But someone between you and the VP on the org chart didn't.

Were they bitter about the situation where it seemed like you went over their head? Were there repercussions from that?

I'm not saying you did anything wrong, but you make it sound like the decision was unambiguous - you are being forced to use some tech that's slowing you down, and you know of a way to speed things up. Why did that need a VP to be approved?

I'm not bringing this up to blame you - but I also want to make sure anyone reading this doesn't feel like their only action in a situation like this is to wait for a VP to come in, hear all their complaints, and magically solve their problems. In another situation, your exact actions would have led to no change, and a ruined relationship with a manager who would have vindictively punished you by going outside the reporting chain.

Re:Giving a shit as a service by ajb on Tuesday July 12, 2022 @05:40PM (#32076030)
It could also be a case of the Abilene Paradox: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abilene_paradox

"In the Abilene paradox, a group of people collectively decide on a course of action that is counter to the preferences of many or all of the individuals in the group. It involves a common breakdown of group communication in which each member mistakenly believes that their own preferences are counter to the group's and, therefore, does not raise objections, or even states support for an outcome they do not want. A common phrase relating to the Abilene paradox is a desire to not "rock the boat". "

Re:Giving a shit as a service by jlokier on Wednesday July 13, 2022 @01:46AM (#32079365)
Aha, a name for it.

I ran a meeting once where a significant consensus decision was made after lengthy discussion of several alternatives.

The result surprised and disappointed me, so I checked with everyone individually later, away from the meeting, to find nobody in the group wanted the option they voted for, they just voted for what they thought everyone else wanted. Which turned out to be wrong. It wasn't even a compromise, it was just incorrect belief from misinterpreting everyone else's sentiment.

The least popular option prevailed, with unanimous consensus, and nobody knew it was unpopular until I checked after.

Re:Giving a shit as a service by at-fates-hands on Tuesday July 12, 2022 @07:33PM (#32077186)
>> It sounds like the PM also wanted to pivot. But someone between you and the VP on the org chart didn't.

Most of the department was still on Waterfall, we were doing Agile. They mandated we use their old tech stack since we opted for Agile instead of their standard Waterfall project management. This was communicated as a compromise, not knowing how old the tech stack was.

There was a lot of back and forth and the PM showed incredibly courage to stand up to the department heads. Using the old tech stack was a compromise, but in the end, started slowing the project down. Once I was able to explain in more layman terms how it was affecting the project, the people with more say allowed us to pivot.

There was minimal backlash, once we pivoted. I made sure we started hitting goals and gaining traction quickly to offset any arguments they were going to make. I knew we'd be under a microscope, so I put in the extra work to make sure we were covered.

Re:Giving a shit as a service by datavirtue on Tuesday July 12, 2022 @04:05PM (#32074964)
The thing is, you take that lesson, try to speak up another time, and the executive flies off the handle at your boss about some perceived sidestepping of the hierarchy.

I have caught the good and the bad from speaking up but the universal message is to always keep your mouth shut...and that's why we can't have nice things.

I power through and speak up usually, but most people are deathly afraid to because of the spoken/unspoken "keep your mouth shut" cultural message born of hierarchies. Toxic, and probably the reason people flee corporate life ASAP.

Re:Giving a shit as a service by rlpb on Tuesday July 12, 2022 @04:33PM (#32075279)
Keeping your mouth shut maintains your own status quo. People advance in their careers by being good at knowing when to keep their mouths shut, and when to speak up.
Re:Giving a shit as a service by at-fates-hands on Tuesday July 12, 2022 @07:42PM (#32077256)
Agreed.

I've been in the same position a few times after this and it really is all about reading the room and the people you're talking to.

It was clear the execs I was talking to wanted to get a more "feet on the street" perspective on the project and find out what was really making the project lag behind. I felt like I had nothing to lose and could explain things in a simple manner so they could understand what the issue was and give them a viable alternative that could save the project.

In other situations, I've had the CTO sit in front of a room and berate a dev team I was on for not testing an external app and having it crash a bevy of servers for almost two days while asking if anybody had any answers as to why we didn't test enough. The other situation was getting pulled into a VP's office and ask me why a project wasn't hitting our goals. It felt like more of a "Tell me who I should be firing for this." meeting and I wasn't about to throw anybody under the bus and felt like being honest and speaking up wasn't in my best interest.

Re:Giving a shit as a service by Izikiel43 on Tuesday July 12, 2022 @03:03PM (#32074331)
Did something other than a thank you come out of this interaction?
Re:Giving a shit as a service by at-fates-hands on Tuesday July 12, 2022 @07:28PM (#32077138)
I was offered a full-time position in the company.

The execs were shocked I was "just a contractor". So that was pretty cool.

Re:Giving a shit as a service by travisjungroth on Tuesday July 12, 2022 @03:07PM (#32074371)
Based on the story, it helped the project not get shut down.