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Re:Sir Mo Farah reveals he was trafficked into the UK using ... by Gollapalli on Monday July 11, 2022 @11:18PM (#32065160)
Wage dilution is an issue. It's the working and middle classes that are most harmed by immigration.

Those who are in the position to not have their wages threatened by mass immigration policies are free to reap the rewards of cheap labor, but for those who are in the position of being outcompeted by incoming labor, immigration is a drawback not an asset.

Naturally, policymakers are in the former category, and as such, happen to quite like mass immigration.

Re:Sir Mo Farah reveals he was trafficked into the UK using ... by sangnoir on Monday July 11, 2022 @11:52PM (#32065405)
> It's the working and middle classes that are most harmed by immigration.

Didn't farmers complain that British (working class?)citizens[1] weren't up for picking fruits after East Europeans hit the Brexit? The same working & middle class rely on cheap fruits, so it's not a simple equation where fewer immigrants = better jobs.

1. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-suffolk-61568286

Re:Sir Mo Farah reveals he was trafficked into the UK using ... by wewxjfq on Tuesday July 12, 2022 @02:35AM (#32066376)
Or you could try to stop the race to the bottom and pay the working class more so they can afford strawberries that aren't picked by wage slaves.
Re:Sir Mo Farah reveals he was trafficked into the UK using ... by Gollapalli on Tuesday July 12, 2022 @02:57AM (#32066519)
There's a difference between a complaint and a reality. British working class citizens likely wouldn't wish to pick fruits, at the wages that British farmers wish to pay them.

Actually, that's sort of the point. British working class labour being undercut by foreign labour.

Re:Sir Mo Farah reveals he was trafficked into the UK using ... by sangnoir on Tuesday July 12, 2022 @12:01PM (#32071848)
> Actually, that's sort of the point. British working class labour being undercut by foreign labour.

Sure, that may work in a purely hypothetical construct with rational economic agents, no second-order effects, farmers that are OK with going out of business, no political pandering, a the Conservative government that cares about labor (the class) and spherical cows.

Why are the anti-immigration politicians, now that they have "taken back control" - still keeping the immigration pipeline running? Just with fewer EU immigrants.

Blaming foreign laborers for systemic problems is a lazy cop-out: that is the bloc with the least say.

Re:Sir Mo Farah reveals he was trafficked into the UK using ... by emsixteen on Tuesday July 12, 2022 @03:14AM (#32066618)
"Undercut"? You're getting there.
Re:Sir Mo Farah reveals he was trafficked into the UK using ... by thrown_22 on Tuesday July 12, 2022 @12:20AM (#32065593)
I'm not sure how to respond without being glib, but there's more to life than fruit.

Safe working conditions are worth 5 pound strawberries.

Re:Sir Mo Farah reveals he was trafficked into the UK using ... by sangnoir on Tuesday July 12, 2022 @12:37AM (#32065709)
Sure - there's more to life than fruit, massages, receiving trucked goods, and being attended to by health techs - but add it all up and you're missing quite a huge chunk of "life", IMO.
Re:Sir Mo Farah reveals he was trafficked into the UK using ... by thrown_22 on Tuesday July 12, 2022 @01:11AM (#32065882)
If a system depends on disposable workers to provide those things than it's not a system we should be supporting. We need to figure out how to provide a wage large enough to provide for everyone, not just the lucky few who have an army of slaves to meet their needs. Currently we don't and we are stealing the human capital of the second world to support our failing countries.
Re:Sir Mo Farah reveals he was trafficked into the UK using ... by random314 on Tuesday July 12, 2022 @01:53AM (#32066147)
The strawman is now a strawarmy!
Re:Sir Mo Farah reveals he was trafficked into the UK using ... by hnhg on Tuesday July 12, 2022 @01:47AM (#32066114)
Why do you assume they're unsafe? That's not in the article. It appears you've created a strawman.
Re:Sir Mo Farah reveals he was trafficked into the UK using ... by nly on Tuesday July 12, 2022 @04:49AM (#32067199)
Real UK wages are stagnant because the UK has a desperately unproductive economy. Growth in disposable household income has lagged Europe massively for decades.

We also have the highest tax burden as a % of GDP in 70 years. House prices are the highest relative to income than they have ever been.

We're a country circling the drain.

Blaming immigration and the EU in political discourse just suits the political agenda of our clueless, ambivalent politicians who haven't got the vision or balls to radically change anything for the better. Instead they'll just pick over what benefits they will cut and what taxes they will cut/increase and run in circles.

Re:Sir Mo Farah reveals he was trafficked into the UK using ... by Gibbon1 on Tuesday July 12, 2022 @05:07AM (#32067350)
Your comment makes me think of this essay by Branko Milanovic

Particularly this line: Xi sees the break-up of the Soviet Union and the end of the CPSU as the result of “ideological nihilism”: the ruling strata have ceased to believe in the advantages and the value of the system, but lacked any other ideological coordinates within which to situate their thinking.

https://braveneweurope.com/branko-milanovic-the-rule-of-nihi...

My personal term to describe the players in Britain's politics is functional incompetence. Which is while they are adept at gaining and holding on to office, they are hapless at performing the actual duties of those offices.

Re:Sir Mo Farah reveals he was trafficked into the UK using ... by cmsj on Tuesday July 12, 2022 @05:38AM (#32067566)
> functional incompetence

Yep, our ruling class is educated to be quick witted in abstract debates and that is the extent of their depth.

Re:Sir Mo Farah reveals he was trafficked into the UK using ... by mrtksn on Tuesday July 12, 2022 @05:00AM (#32067288)
You know what else is bad for the wedges? Schools producing all those engineers undercutting the wedge growth of those already in the profession.

With that logic, education is the primary enemy of the middle class.

Seriously though, this demand to control the supply of labor is a strange one. Everybody is for meritocracy and free market until they are expected to perform. Working permits are like the taxi medallion system.

If someone who speaks native English, went to British schools, have a network in the country thanks to living there since ever cannot compete with someone from, say Romania, it's only fair for the immigrant to take the job.

Re:Sir Mo Farah reveals he was trafficked into the UK using ... by closeparen on Tuesday July 12, 2022 @12:51AM (#32065780)
No, it's not, this is called the lump of labor fallacy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lump_of_labour_fallacy
Re:Sir Mo Farah reveals he was trafficked into the UK using ... by brigandish on Tuesday July 12, 2022 @02:36AM (#32066387)
Quoting from that article:

> However, skilled immigrating workers can bring capabilities that are not available in the native workforce, for example in academic research or information technology. Additionally, immigrating workforces also create new jobs by expanding demand, thus creating more jobs, either directly by setting up businesses (therefore requiring local services or workers), or indirectly by raising consumption. As an example, a greater population that eats more groceries will increase demand from shops, which will therefore require additional shop staff.

If that's the "fallacy" then it's not much of a rebuttal. The UK has an immigration system that allows in quite easily the kind of people who do academic research and information technology. How that has any relevance to low paid workers in far more precarious professions (or no profession at all) who have to compete with low skilled immigrants who are unlikely to know their rights, thus pressuring conditions downwards, who are likely to find the low pay better than they could get back home (or worse, taking lower pay out of necessity because of their illegal immigration status) which again, pressures downwards the pay levels, you'll have to explain.

One of my friends is from a Baltic state and wasn't claiming for money she should've been paid, which suited her employer just fine (this story[1] turned up a week after I learned about this, about her industry and mirrored her situation) - do you think there was a reason my friend said all her colleagues were foreigners? I'll give you the two best reasons I think for that:

a) The company wanted to hire foreigners because it would be easier to scam them out of money and rights

b) Locals would be less inclined to put up with that kind of nonsense

How is any of this helpful to a country, the locals, or the immigrants?

[1] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37350750

Re:Sir Mo Farah reveals he was trafficked into the UK using ... by closeparen on Tuesday July 12, 2022 @02:52AM (#32066485)
Yes, the leverage employers can have over immigrants is a big problem. An illegal immigrant who goes to the authorities with a wage theft claim risks being arrested and deported herself. Even a highly educated tech worker at Facebook cannot switch to Google without jeopardizing his family's status in the United States.

The harsher the climate towards immigrants in laws and officialdom, the easier they are to exploit. The anti-immigration voters who demand this harshness are shooting themselves in the foot a bit, and should reconsider.

Re:Sir Mo Farah reveals he was trafficked into the UK using ... by brigandish on Tuesday July 12, 2022 @05:01AM (#32067297)
> The harsher the climate towards immigrants in laws and officialdom, the easier they are to exploit. The anti-immigration voters who demand this harshness are shooting themselves in the foot a bit, and should reconsider.

That ignores opportunity cost. There's a reason there are camps at Calais, and it's because those in the camps believe - rightly or wrongly - that they are better off applying for asylum in Britain than France.

Re:Sir Mo Farah reveals he was trafficked into the UK using ... by brigandish on Sunday July 24, 2022 @12:50AM (#32210429)
It hasn't taken long for the policy to prove this true. From[1]:

> Numbers in this category have also grown significantly in recent months. Taoiseach Micheál Martin has said that the increase is in response to a new UK policy being introduced which threatens to deport new arrivals into the UK to Rwanda in central Africa.

[1] https://www.irishcentral.com/opinion/what-should-be-done-ire...

Re:Sir Mo Farah reveals he was trafficked into the UK using ... by olivermarks on Tuesday July 12, 2022 @01:31AM (#32066024)
Tragedy of the commons (or in this case mass immigration to the 'commons') https://online.hbs.edu/blog/post/tragedy-of-the-commons-impa... example 5
Re:Sir Mo Farah reveals he was trafficked into the UK using ... by closeparen on Tuesday July 12, 2022 @02:35AM (#32066378)
Wages do not work like groundwater. There is no fixed exogenous workload or pool of national income such that fewer people get bigger shares. This was cutting edge thinking at the time of the Industrial Revolution but it turned out to be totally wrong. Obviously, or standards of living in Western countries today would be much worse than in Malthusianism's heyday, given our now much higher populations.
Re:Sir Mo Farah reveals he was trafficked into the UK using ... by olivermarks on Tuesday July 12, 2022 @12:52PM (#32072664)
Disagree. UK socialists last century when the country was still a manufacturing powerhouse were clear about the concept of a nation state with nationalized health, energy, travel etc, union membership and fair taxation for A FINITE NUMBER OF CITIZENS.

Fraternal relationships with similar nation states (all singing the nationale together) was arguably one of the reasons for the creation of the common market (which of course mushroomed over time into the huge undemocratic bureaucratic monster it now is).

Naturally those benefits (literally in some cases) were very attractive to people like Mo Farah's family from afar decades ago and the UK and Europe were empathetic to allowing some immigration.

The tragedy of the commons is epitomized by globalization, the vast offshore empire that now controls the planet. The globalists want compliant, overpopulated workforces with no negotiating skills in all countries and thus encouraging borderless society. The result is mediocre wages, large amounts of trafficking of in some cases literally slave labour and few opportunities for what used to be termed the working classes.

These are huge global problems that are currently spinning out of control due to the globalists also controlling the central banks which have enabled finacialization of everything and now ferocious inflation

Re:Sir Mo Farah reveals he was trafficked into the UK using ... by jon_adler on Tuesday July 12, 2022 @06:51AM (#32068045)
How has Australian wages been harmed by considerably higher immigration?