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Re:Russian gas flows to Europe by igammarays on Sunday July 10, 2022 @05:51PM (#32049459)
This is not a proxy war. Russia is involved directly on its border. A proxy war is in a far off land.
Re:Russian gas flows to Europe by dreig on Sunday July 10, 2022 @06:00PM (#32049531)
Afghanistan was on the border of USSR. Why was that a proxy war and this one isn't?
Re:Russian gas flows to Europe by igammarays on Sunday July 10, 2022 @06:10PM (#32049615)
USSR is not Russia. Afghanistan was a not a "core interest" or existential threat to any of the USSR nations.

If we use the Afghanistan analogy, Ukraine is on the border of NATO too. Interestingly, then NATO would be the overextended multinational entity trying to expand even further in this scenario. If we expect an "Afghanistan" scenario to repeat itself, then logically one would expect NATO to collapse.

Re:Russian gas flows to Europe by dreig on Sunday July 10, 2022 @06:59PM (#32050061)
I was not saying that USSR is Russia.

In earlier comment you said: "Vietnam and Afghanistan .... Those were pure proxy wars. This is not a proxy war, it is a direct hot war." And here you wrote: "This is not a proxy war. Russia is involved directly on its border. A proxy war is in a far off land." And I was saying that Afghanistan was not a far off land, it was on the border, so your two usages of "proxy war" weren't consistent.

Sorry, I don't understand your second paragraph, I was not trying to draw an analogy with USSR and Afghanistan.

As I understand, your argument is instead that: "Afghanistan was not important to USSR, so USSR did not consider using nuclear weapons then", while "Ukraine is a core interest of Russia, so it will rather start a nuclear war (and risk destruction of the world) rather than back down and return to the positions before Feb 24th." I don't know if this statement is as obviously correct as it may seem to you. Certainly many believe that Russia is not willing to self-destruct to stand the ground here.

Re:Russian gas flows to Europe by yucky on Sunday July 10, 2022 @08:28PM (#32050778)
It is a proxy war for the US. After all, Russia is not at war with Ukraine, it is at war in Ukraine, against NATO.
Re:Russian gas flows to Europe by archagon on Monday July 11, 2022 @11:41AM (#32057604)
Russia is certainly at war with Ukraine.
Re:Russian gas flows to Europe by yucky on Monday July 11, 2022 @04:15PM (#32061201)
US/NATO isn't involved in this war? It's just Russia vs Ukraine?
Re:Russian gas flows to Europe by justsomehnguy on Monday July 11, 2022 @04:18PM (#32061239)
In those debates I just asking what my debatee knows about Ukrainian reconnaissance satellites.
Re:Russian gas flows to Europe by tim333 on Monday July 11, 2022 @08:17AM (#32055135)
I think most Ukrainians would disagee.
Re:Russian gas flows to Europe by ptr on Monday July 11, 2022 @03:22AM (#32053248)
This is wrong, which even Putin has confessed. It’s all about Putin wanting to create a new Great Russia.
Re:Russian gas flows to Europe by yucky on Monday July 11, 2022 @10:14AM (#32056438)
That doesn't contradict what I said though. Yes Putin wants to expand the Russian sphere of influence, and yes NATO is fighting against that in a proxy war led by the US, in Ukraine.

This isn't just Ukraine v Russia, hence the proxy war label is correct.