News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:GTK 5 might drop X11 support by drdo on Wednesday July 06, 2022 @04:52PM (#32006675)
Do you have an example of something that does not work?

I'm using Fedora 36 and everything that I can think of works well.

Re:GTK 5 might drop X11 support by pvorb on Wednesday July 06, 2022 @05:52PM (#32007276)
It's been a while. The last thing that was an absolute mess was screen sharing via Google Hangouts/Meet. You could share individual windows just fine, but I had two external displays attached to my notebook and wanted to share a single screen. It wouldn't work. You could only share both screens at once, so it was impossible for others to read anything.

I think external displays in general had problems, but I don't remember many details. I had problems with my docking station under Wayland, scaling options that didn't work. And there was an issue when trying to re-order attached screens with the corresponding Gnome tool.

I think this was on Ubuntu in 2018 or 2019, when they started giving you Wayland by default. But they soon learned that it just wasn't ready yet.

Granted, some of those problems might have been caused by Gnome tools or Ubuntu or maybe even hardware drivers. But all of them were gone immediately once I switched back to X.

Re:GTK 5 might drop X11 support by drdo on Wednesday July 06, 2022 @07:00PM (#32007954)
Screen sharing definitely works on Chrome (webrtc), Zoom (desktop app) and Slack (desktop app or web) on my vanilla Fedora 36 setup.
Re:GTK 5 might drop X11 support by pvorb on Wednesday July 06, 2022 @07:20PM (#32008116)
A pandemic might have helped here in prioritizing. ;-)

But does it also work with multiple external displays? Because it worked on a single screen for me back then, too.

Re:GTK 5 might drop X11 support by aordano on Wednesday July 06, 2022 @05:55PM (#32007314)
X11 Keyboard extension system (which i need for my custom layout) is basically garbage on Wayland; some other extensions that are needed to enable small functions in other aspects (not just screen composition) also don't work or behave poorly outside X11. I really dislike X and i would ditch it in a heartbeat if a good alternative existed.

I tried hard to love Wayland but it's just not there yet. I hope it will be sooner, debugging why my keyboard stopped working because a C header file changed slightly in a semi-unrelated package upgrade is very not fun, and yet that's the best there is.

Re:GTK 5 might drop X11 support by aidenn0 on Wednesday July 06, 2022 @05:07PM (#32006839)
I'm sure Wayland works in general, but every 6 months I try Wayland/KDE and I have yet to successfully start up the desktop.
Re:GTK 5 might drop X11 support by artogahr on Wednesday July 06, 2022 @05:15PM (#32006919)
Nvidia card?
Re:GTK 5 might drop X11 support by aidenn0 on Wednesday July 06, 2022 @05:28PM (#32007052)
yes. I've considered getting an rx-6400 to switch.
Re:GTK 5 might drop X11 support by jeroenhd on Wednesday July 06, 2022 @05:40PM (#32007161)
For what it's worth, Wayland seems to work fine with the more recent proprietary Nvidia drivers released earlier this year.

Mutter is still buggy on Nvidia but I believe KDE should work fine these days unless you're on a distro that doesn't have recent drivers.

Re:GTK 5 might drop X11 support by aidenn0 on Sunday July 10, 2022 @11:02PM (#32051718)
With nvidia-binary version 515.48.07 on linux 5.15.50 it immediately crashes and restarts sddm

With nouveau, it works for up to a minute before freezing and locking the GPU.

Re:GTK 5 might drop X11 support by jeroenhd on Monday July 11, 2022 @06:41AM (#32054407)
If the notes on the Arch wiki are anything to go by, SDDM doesn't support Wayland quite well. The issue tracker seems to agree: https://github.com/sddm/sddm/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+w...

I'm not so sure whether this is an nvidia issue or an SDDM issue.

Re:GTK 5 might drop X11 support by aidenn0 on Monday July 11, 2022 @09:29PM (#32064482)
Tried it with lightdm (and just launching kde-plasma from a TTY) same result.
Re:GTK 5 might drop X11 support by jeroenhd on Monday July 11, 2022 @10:04PM (#32064733)
Strange, that sucks. I guess either you're unlucky with your hardware compatibility or I'm lucky with mine. Hopefully the open nvidia driver programme will bring better compatibility to both our systems!
Re:GTK 5 might drop X11 support by magicalhippo on Wednesday July 06, 2022 @06:25PM (#32007633)
As I mentioned in another comment[1]. I got credential errors accessing a Samba share using Wayland, worked fine with Xorg.

No idea what Wayland has to do with Samba but I'm back to running Xorg yet again.

[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32007533

Re:GTK 5 might drop X11 support by vetinari on Wednesday July 06, 2022 @05:04PM (#32006812)
At this point, we are talking about spacebar heating (https://xkcd.com/1172/)
Re:GTK 5 might drop X11 support by pvorb on Wednesday July 06, 2022 @06:23PM (#32007614)
Possibly the situation is better today and it might be even better once GTK5 will make it to end users.

But if Wayland folks think that having two external displays and screen sharing is an esoteric workflow, I know that my decision was correct.

Re:GTK 5 might drop X11 support by horsawlarway on Thursday July 07, 2022 @10:32AM (#32014617)
I don't understand this comment - I have to assume you haven't used it at all (or at least several years).

Multiple external displays works MILES better on wayland - I can set proper scaling ratios set on each screen, which is basically a requirement for a modern laptop with external monitors. No more "This window opened on my laptop screen and will be HUGE on the external monitors because the laptop was scaled for hidpi and the externals aren't". Now the issue is just limited to apps running in x-wayland, and I have close to zero apps that I care about running in x-wayland these days.

Further - I get much more consistent external display output with Wayland. I plug the monitor in and it "just fucking works"tm.

Screen sharing is a pain on basically every modern system - you're letting one application monitor and consume the output on another. Allowing this by default and with no user prompt is a fucking nightmare (and as much as people bitch about "but mah screen sharing!" - there's an equally vocal push from the "but mah system security!" crowd). Wayland struggled here for a bit, but it seems like covid finally pushed the right buttons to get this knocked out in most of the DEs I've used. All the major sharing platforms now seem to work - Slack/Discord/Zoom/Chrome/etc... Including sharing multiple displays now.

So basically - fucking no one thinks this: "But if Wayland folks think that having two external displays and screen sharing is an esoteric workflow"

Re:GTK 5 might drop X11 support by vetinari on Thursday July 07, 2022 @07:42AM (#32012722)
> two external displays and screen sharing is an esoteric workflow

that one works better with wayland than with x11. Especially if the monitors are different dpi.

Re:GTK 5 might drop X11 support by kaba0 on Thursday July 07, 2022 @03:33AM (#32010951)
What gives you the impression they think that? There is quite a lot going on before your google meets displays a popup of what you want to share and the display manager initiating screen sharing.

For what it worth, Wayland has really good externel screen support (mixed-DPI even), so it is likely just a not-yet-supported feature, nothing inherently problematic.