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Re:Cheap, green hydrogen would be a breakthrough in clean en... by ggm on Tuesday June 21, 2022 @11:46PM (#31831820)
The FF industry is leaping (has leapt, historically) on CCS as a getout clause and has sunk french metric tonnes of money into CCS. So far, its uneconomic except for the specific use of pumping gas into wells to make them more productive, which leads to more fugitive gas. No significant CCS experiment worldwide has achieved its goals as sequestration. The one in Western Australia releases so much CO2 it has to pay a penalty cost, to maintain status. (its a gas field associated with other extractive industry I believe)

This money they've sunk: its not their money: they've been doing it off the public teat as "research" or, when it is their money, its booked to R&D and has massive royalty & tax offset benefits. Its a shellgame.

The inclusion of blue hydrogen+CCS in this piece is really regrettable: its being used to avoid having to wear the cost of going to green hydrogen, which is abandoning FF inputs. For holders of shares in coal and gas, this is not optimal so they oppose green and argue abatement by CCS is "the one"

It doesn't work. CCS is a giant con. The evidence is strong that at scale CCS is not working, and will waste years of time, billions of dollars of cost, and gigatonnes of CO2, to prove it.

Overall I like Gates trying to help. He's been badly advised when it comes to CCS.

Re:Cheap, green hydrogen would be a breakthrough in clean en... by otikik on Wednesday June 22, 2022 @02:57AM (#31832829)
Carbon Capture and Storage works by capturing research funds and burying it deep, deep into fossil fuel companies accounts, where no tax officer can reach them.

https://youtu.be/MSZgoFyuHC8

Re:Cheap, green hydrogen would be a breakthrough in clean en... by ad404b8a372f2b9 on Tuesday June 21, 2022 @11:50PM (#31831836)
FF: fossil fuel. CCS: carbon capture and storage.
Re:Cheap, green hydrogen would be a breakthrough in clean en... by ugh123 on Wednesday June 22, 2022 @12:14AM (#31831954)
THANK YOU
Re:Cheap, green hydrogen would be a breakthrough in clean en... by ggm on Wednesday June 22, 2022 @12:16AM (#31831960)
Yea fair point. I should have expanded in my own piece. Thanks for that.
Re:Cheap, green hydrogen would be a breakthrough in clean en... by joelthelion on Wednesday June 22, 2022 @08:13AM (#31835019)
You can still do it :)
Re:Cheap, green hydrogen would be a breakthrough in clean en... by Jabihjo on Thursday June 23, 2022 @06:25AM (#31847148)
FFS..for fucks sake
Re:Cheap, green hydrogen would be a breakthrough in clean en... by simonebrunozzi on Wednesday June 22, 2022 @04:05AM (#31833233)
CCS = Carbon Capture and Storage

You should clarify what an acronym means before using it tens of times.

Re:Cheap, green hydrogen would be a breakthrough in clean en... by breadloaf on Wednesday June 22, 2022 @09:05AM (#31835533)
I was honestly thinking that he is talking about CCS fleet gas pay cards.
Re:Cheap, green hydrogen would be a breakthrough in clean en... by raylad on Wednesday June 22, 2022 @01:23AM (#31832345)
I think you are probably right, but some references would really be helpful. Could you share any that you have handy?
Re:Cheap, green hydrogen would be a breakthrough in clean en... by tinco on Wednesday June 22, 2022 @05:04AM (#31833564)
I think this might be the greatest comment I have ever seen on HN or elsewhere. Thanks, I wonder if BillG has read all four of them before he made up his mind, or that he's one-sidedly informed.
Re:Cheap, green hydrogen would be a breakthrough in clean en... by anovikov on Wednesday June 22, 2022 @12:08AM (#31831918)
I fully agree with your perception of CCS but i think it's only a small historical detour of about the same scale/level of harm as cellulosic ethanol or concentrated solar thermal used to be. Tried, failed, moved on. No one bets the farm on it, Fit for 55 plan for example, makes no mention of CCS.
Re:Cheap, green hydrogen would be a breakthrough in clean en... by ggm on Wednesday June 22, 2022 @12:15AM (#31831956)
Not here in Australia.

Have a look at: https://www.kwm.com/au/en/insights/latest-thinking/ccs-in-au...

(Burrup is the one I mentioned)

Thats $250 million of committed funding to a range of high scale projects by the gas industry, coal-seam gas included.

Re:Cheap, green hydrogen would be a breakthrough in clean en... by anovikov on Wednesday June 22, 2022 @12:29AM (#31832024)
That's right, but by comparison, Australia has 25GW of solar installed, so this funding represents only $0.01 per watt of installed solar, probably less than 1% of subsidy that went to solar. It's an OK amount to try and fail once.
Re:Cheap, green hydrogen would be a breakthrough in clean en... by Retric on Wednesday June 22, 2022 @06:06AM (#31833935)
Most of that is 25GW is recent and cheap PV at close to $0.02 per watt. It’s the tiny fraction from before 2015 that was really expensive.

A 250m subsidy to grid solar right now would easily increase total installed solar to 100GW+. So, I wouldn’t be surprised if that project alone was a larger subsidy than every subsidy given to grid solar in Australia.

Re:Cheap, green hydrogen would be a breakthrough in clean en... by anovikov on Wednesday June 22, 2022 @07:08AM (#31834432)
$0.02 per watt??? don't you confuse with the cost of kilowatt-hour of power? Cheapest installed solar is >$1 per watt, most of the time about $1.5-$2 per watt. Cheapest Chinese panels themselves are about $0.25 per watt and they make a tiny part of the overall setup costs.
Re:Cheap, green hydrogen would be a breakthrough in clean en... by Retric on Wednesday June 22, 2022 @10:20AM (#31836304)
Loans.

Nobody is going to hand out a subsidy and say here buy panels with this. It’s all about the multiplier, even home subsidies don’t 1:1 pay for panels it’s at best deduct the cost from your taxes saving 30% or whatever on the cost and often less than that.

So, that’s where the ~2c/kWh shows up it’s roughly the minimum cash on hand someone needs to get the ball rolling for loans on a grid solar project assuming a proven track record. Now hand someone with that track record 250 million free and clear and not only can they get loans but they can also attract private investors.

Of course the risk is you hand out money to projects that would happen either way and get noting for the subsidy.

Re:Cheap, green hydrogen would be a breakthrough in clean en... by sitkack on Thursday June 23, 2022 @08:27PM (#31856662)
Gates knows exactly what he is doing. Same Gates, different pasture.