As has been stated, though, simply saying there have been 273 crashes by itself means nothing.

If I said to you "following the introduction of a new drug there have been 1000 heart attacks in the USA this year so far", you may think, shit, 1000 people have had heart attacks, but when you realise that there are 800,000 heart attacks per year in the USA, making it about 400,000 pro-rata for June, reducing that down to 1000 would be amazing.

So, 273 crashes. But what would that figure be without the system?

We need the data to compare this to groups of drivers who don't use these systems. Otherwise, it's meaningless. The numbers are meaningless. Like values without units.

Huh?

But we DO have the data for "groups of drivers who don't use these systems" ...

But with a raw number in the headline -- instead of some kind of ratio that could compare with/without the new system -- it's not that honest.

I think OP is saying something slightly different: the Tesla numbers could be substantially worse if Autopilot simply disengages 1 millisecond before impact, it would not count as an Autopilot crash.

The WaPo article addresses that and counts them as AutoPilot engaged crashes. It seems to disengage 1 second before many of the crashes. It is nearly impossible to draw any conclusions about anything from this article. Other than, people use AutoPilot and sometimes they crash using it.

The one interesting bit is where the damage happened on the cars and the hitting of stationary objects. Those seem like unforced autopilot errors.

1 ms < 30 seconds, so that data is there as well.

Also,

>I'm no Tesla fan, but ...

Sounds like he's vouching for them.

Anyway, the argument is not against @bradfa, it is about whether AP makes driving safer or not.

And there's recent articles where almost exactly this has been found. Autopilot deactivating 1 second before impact.

In these kinds of cases, then yes, Autopilot is definitely partly at fault, but also the human is because Autopilot is only a level 2 system, the human is still responsible.

> Autopilot is only a level 2 system, the human is still responsible.

True.

> In these kinds of cases, then yes, Autopilot is definitely partly at fault,

Partly? Now that's called shilling.