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Re:Sunsetting Atom by can16358p on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @04:30PM (#31673575)
While I don't know about the plugin ecosystem of Vim/Emacs, I definitely agree with the learning curve part.

In Emacs/Vim I can't even escape the program if I don't know a keyboard shortcut.

In Vscode even if I forgot Cmd+W/Q I can simply click the close button. Not to mention that all the shortcuts are just globally used shortcuts in all the other software.

While I respect praising by the community of Vim/Emacs, I really don't think it's beginner-friendly.

So anyone starting a software career virtually picks Vscode, gets used to it, and almost has no reason to switch to something else for now unless they need something extremely specific.

Re:Sunsetting Atom by medo-bear on Thursday June 09, 2022 @07:22AM (#31679845)
> In Vscode even if I forgot Cmd+W/Q I can simply click the close button

there is a close button in emacs. however unlike vscode, emacs can also run in the terminal

> So anyone starting a software career virtually picks Vscode, gets used to it, and almost has no reason to switch to something else for now unless they need something extremely specific

can be said about windows too. i started off on windows and jetbrains. today im on minimal linux, stumpwm as window manager, and emacs for everything except browsing. i find it very liberating having cut down my dependencies without having cut down functionality

Re:Sunsetting Atom by BeetleB on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @05:24PM (#31674428)
> In Emacs/Vim I can't even escape the program if I don't know a keyboard shortcut.

Or, you know, you could just click on the File menu and click on Quit.

Re:Sunsetting Atom by can16358p on Thursday June 09, 2022 @05:02AM (#31679075)
I was (obviously) referring to terminal.
Re:Sunsetting Atom by theonething on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @08:57PM (#31676414)
You've never run them in a terminal?
Re:Sunsetting Atom by BeetleB on Thursday June 09, 2022 @01:10AM (#31677756)
> You've never run them in a terminal?

When I run Emacs with a blank config, the default display has this:

    Get help           C-h  (Hold down CTRL and press h)
    Emacs manual       C-h r        Browse manuals     C-h i
    Emacs tutorial     C-h t        Undo changes       C-x u
    Buy manuals        C-h RET      Exit Emacs         C-x C-c
    Activate menubar   M-`
Re:Sunsetting Atom by theonething on Friday June 10, 2022 @01:22PM (#31696992)
> Or, you know, you could just click on the File menu and click on Quit.

and in Vim, there is no such display.

Re:Sunsetting Atom by kstrauser on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @11:12PM (#31677213)
You can’t run VSCode or Atom in a terminal, so I don’t think that’s a fair comparison.
Re:Sunsetting Atom by theonething on Friday June 10, 2022 @01:17PM (#31696932)
???

I'm not making that comparison.

GP's post was in response to the complaint that Emacs/Vim are hard to exit. They said that "Or, you know, you could just click on the File menu and click on Quit."

And I'm just saying you can't do that in the terminal.

Not sure what you're going on about.

Re:Sunsetting Atom by thayne on Thursday June 09, 2022 @12:15AM (#31677478)
Your terminal doesn't have a way to exit it?
Re:Sunsetting Atom by theonething on Friday June 10, 2022 @01:19PM (#31696958)
Are you suggesting a good way to quit vim/emacs is by exiting the terminal?
Re:Sunsetting Atom by prmoustache on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @05:22PM (#31674410)
I don't know.

The rare time I use vscode instead of neovim I always end up with a lot of random characters into the code and have to close it without saving for fear of having broken something. You call that user friendly?

Re:Sunsetting Atom by kamaal on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @11:57PM (#31677415)
>>You call that user friendly?

User friendly is what most users find it easy to use.

Your argument is more on the lines that you are a legacy user who does't want to move.

The whole idea of using vim/emacs was when intellisense/autocomplete was in its infancy. And programming general required using typing skills as a autocomplete mechanism. The only real use of all that edit-commands-as-a-mini-language philosophy of vim is to write keyboard macros. Which again was needed because people lacked decent autocomplete features. Besides typing fast itself isn't connected to coding productivity these days.

Re:Sunsetting Atom by prmoustache on Thursday June 09, 2022 @03:17AM (#31678405)
See my previous comment. LSP/intellisense support is available on vim/neovim and many other editors. It is not like it is an exclusivity to vscode. Also many people actually configure their vscode to use vim-like keyboard bindings because they actually like the separation of the different modes.

Macros, substitutions and search commands are useful for many things and an editor like vim/neovim/emacs is not only used for code.

Nobody ever talked about typing fast.

Re:Sunsetting Atom by ParetoOptimal on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @06:32PM (#31675276)
> In Emacs/Vim I can't even escape the program if I don't know a keyboard shortcut.

With emacs this is a feature, not a bug ;)