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Re:Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab by lm28469 on Tuesday June 07, 2022 @11:00AM (#31655355)
What makes Taiwan inherently better than somewhere else ? If it's just for historical and/or economical reason I don't see why Europe or the US couldn't build their own chemical plants.

You have to start somewhere, it took us decades to delocalise everything to Asia, it'll take decades to build these industries locally.

Re:Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab by baybal2 on Tuesday June 07, 2022 @11:14AM (#31655565)
You have just asked why we can't "just move manufacturing out of China:"

There are no individual chemical plants, there are huge chemical complexes owned by many companies with own well guarded know hows. There may be 2-4 suppliers in a row producing some intermediary product used in making of only 1 output.

Just to make the semiconductor grade hyperpure propanol you need ultrapure catalysts, ultrapure sulphuric acid, ultrapure water, and ultrapure input hydrocarbon stock. Ah, forgot, you also needs an ultrapure tare manufacturer, because bottles you ship ultrapure materials are single use.

You need decades just to replicate this. Now you need to move 100+ of such material chains.

> If it's just for historical and/or economical reason

Simple answer, yes! Taiwan has quietly swallowed near an entirety of the wider precision manufacturing industry.

It been consistently swallowing very capital intensive industries producing exportable niche products one after another simply because nobody else been taking such hard, and risky ventures. Yes, their profitability is not high, but their "moat" is gigantic.

Taiwan been an industrial titan for 20+ years, and the US only finds out about it now.

Re:Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab by wtetzner on Tuesday June 07, 2022 @12:04PM (#31656330)
> You need decades just to replicate this. Now you need to move 100+ of such material chains.

Better get started right away then.

"The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago. The next best time is today."

Re:Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab by weregiraffe on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @01:16AM (#31663503)
>"The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago. The next best time is today."

"The best time to stop quoting stale platitudes is 20 years ago. The next best time is today."

Re:Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab by mlyle on Tuesday June 07, 2022 @12:42PM (#31656948)
> You need decades just to replicate this. Now you need to move 100+ of such material chains.

I think decades is a stretch. Keep in mind most of these chains sprung up in the last 3 decades organically in Taiwan and China (and many of them are still elsewhere-- e.g. BASF is still a titan.)

If it's a national priority, you can get some production going a lot faster than this.

Re:Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab by baybal2 on Tuesday June 07, 2022 @02:34PM (#31658356)
> If it's a national priority, you can get some production going a lot faster than this.

Defeating CoVID was too a national priority. Did they manage to build a single new mask manufacturing line?

No, but they actually tried really hard. Dozens of companies were recruited for the effort, and they just gave up after realising that they can't even get a single part in the blowing machine to be made in the US.

Re:Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab by mlyle on Thursday June 09, 2022 @06:59PM (#31688039)
> Defeating CoVID was too a national priority. Did they manage to build a single new mask manufacturing line?

I don't think this is a fair representation of what happened. US capacity existed and some additional came online, but then largely failed because of overseas product still coming in below their cost. Semiconductors after a shooting war with China would be a different picture: an imminent return to normalcy wouldn't be in everyone's economic calculations.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/05/business/dealbook/america...

> that they can't even get a single part in the blowing machine to be made in the US.

Not even a single part? Now you're in hyperbole-land.

Re:Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab by JoachimS on Tuesday June 07, 2022 @11:57AM (#31656198)
Excellent explanation.