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Re:Restarting my career after motherhood by razemio on Sunday June 05, 2022 @11:27AM (#31631832)
It is absolutely not! We live in Germany which has good options compared to other countries and it is still not enough. My wife earns 5000€+ in her job. Guess what, you can earn a maximum of 1800€ during parental leave. It gets even better, now that she takes a few hours less because somebody needs to take care of our child, kid number 2 will even be compensated with less (1400€). How is this fair? This is without the missed opportunities to get a higher position. Women are less likely to be employed because of the fear that they might leave for a year or 2. What needs to happen is that the compensation is higher AND that men are forced to take an equal time of. If the woman takes a year the man has todo the same. Otherwise equality will be very difficult to archive.
Re:Restarting my career after motherhood by brigandish on Sunday June 05, 2022 @11:49AM (#31632046)
> How is this fair?

Well, if I were going to argue the case I would probably start with the impossibility of any man ever getting that opportunity. Of course, whether those figures are enough or given out in the right way to the right people at the right time, all of those details can be argued over, but if you're going to start with fairness as your argument you'd better address the elephant in the room first.

> AND that men are forced to take an equal time of

Why is it right that anyone is forced to do anything so that your political views are enacted?

Re:Restarting my career after motherhood by ushakov on Sunday June 05, 2022 @11:53AM (#31632084)
equality ends where it hurts the capital

let me give you an example

good equality: have more women enter workforce so the pool of candidates is bigger and the salaries (expenses) decrease

bad equality: pay for parental leave of both parents

Re:Restarting my career after motherhood by jseban on Sunday June 05, 2022 @12:02PM (#31632159)
Yeah, I'm constantly surprised that nobody every says this. With women entering the work force, now the family as a whole needs to work almost twice as much, as before when women were house wives. That's a pretty hefty price to pay for everyone, to save those women who were unlucky to have a cruel or unfair husband. I don't know if it's possible to say if it's "worth it" or not, but this independence sure does not come for free.
Re:Restarting my career after motherhood by magicalist on Sunday June 05, 2022 @01:05PM (#31632791)
> With women entering the work force

What year is it again?

> That's a pretty hefty price to pay for everyone, to save those women who were unlucky to have a cruel or unfair husband.

Uh, I don't think that's the trade off here.

> I don't know if it's possible to say if it's "worth it" or not, but this independence sure does not come for free.

When one option is to go full Taliban, it's actually pretty easy to say if it's "worth it".

[dead]
Re:Restarting my career after motherhood by gus_massa on Sunday June 05, 2022 @01:27PM (#31633013)
Some women like working.

In particular, my wife like working and having her personal projects. I like to spends part of my time with my children. So we both work and we both take care of the children. We are lucky to have jobs that allow this.

Re:Restarting my career after motherhood by jseban on Sunday June 05, 2022 @01:56PM (#31633309)
Sure it's going to work out for some people, but I still think the obvious downside of increased working hours in total is very significant and almost never mentioned. If you raise the working day from 8 to 12 hours, just because you find some guy who likes it, maybe doesn't mean it should be accepted as a perfect idea with no downside.
Re:Restarting my career after motherhood by ir123 on Sunday June 05, 2022 @02:29PM (#31633595)
its almost as if there should be better labour laws
Re:Restarting my career after motherhood by random-human on Sunday June 05, 2022 @02:33PM (#31633628)
> It's just more communism and less freedom.

How does women entering the work force (from your previous post) equal less freedom? Less freedom for whom? Certainly not women. Since you equate more communism with less freedom, I will assume you agree that money provides freedom, if women can only work as unpaid housewives, they have no freedom. It has nothing to do with their husband, cruel, unfair, or otherwise. This may be surprising, but not all women want kids or marriage, or may want them but also find great joy in working accomplishments - many just did not have those options in any safe stable way until recently. (historicity speaking)

That's not less freedom, it's more, for both women and men (not as much stigma or pressure for not being the 'provider' when they may not want to be) - it does lessen some power and control males have historicity had over society and others. And that can be threatening for those who enjoy limiting others freedoms and controlling them.

Re:Restarting my career after motherhood by jseban on Sunday June 05, 2022 @02:54PM (#31633806)
> How does women entering the work force (from your previous post) equal less freedom? Less freedom for whom? Certainly not women.

Less freedom for those who happen to like traditional gender roles, now they are forced to work more and adapt to more "modern" gender roles. Otherwise they will lose out massively because the single earner has so much lower salary now.

Less freedom because an almost doubled amount of total working hours for a family. Free time = freedom.

Less freedom for childless people because they have much lower salaries now because of the larger supply of workforce (which is somewhat compensated by subsidies to people with children). Now they compete against couples with double income on everything on the market.

A single childless person would previously have the same buying power as a single breadwinner, now they have half.

Less freedom because this creates a much higher pressure and financial incentives for people to have children and to have modern gender roles, and anything else is discouraged.

> if women can only work as unpaid housewives, they have no freedom.

Well, are you more free if you trade free time for working hours? You are literally only more free to slave more.

This freedom only manifests in the case when you want/need to leave your husband.

Re:Restarting my career after motherhood by brigandish on Monday June 06, 2022 @04:22AM (#31638303)
> Less freedom for those who happen to like traditional gender roles, now they are forced to work more and adapt to more "modern" gender roles. Otherwise they will lose out massively because the single earner has so much lower salary now

That's an equivocation. There is the freedom that comes from choice (what is not disallowed) and there is the freedom that comes from available choices. For example, homosexuals being able to marry is not the same kind of freedom as if I had a million dollars I'd be able to do what I want.

Those who prefer traditional gender roles can still have them, they just need to compete to afford it, as they did before, or to cut their cloth.

Re:Restarting my career after motherhood by magicalist on Sunday June 05, 2022 @01:28PM (#31633025)
> It's just more communism and less freedom. Everyone has to make a big sacrifice for the unfortunate few. Corporal punishment to deal with the problem of some cruel husbands.

Not sure if you think you're being philosophical or you know this is nonsense, but it is.

Way over the not even wrong line now.

Re:Restarting my career after motherhood by ir123 on Sunday June 05, 2022 @02:28PM (#31633583)
why can't a new law be passed to reduce from 40 hour week to 20 hour week now that women are in workforce?
Re:Restarting my career after motherhood by jseban on Sunday June 05, 2022 @03:11PM (#31633927)
Yeah this is what I'm wondering too, seems like this is the obvious part of the deal that was somehow missed?

It makes perfect sense, and it would also be fair and benefit both single/childless people as well as people with children.

Re:Restarting my career after motherhood by knorker on Sunday June 05, 2022 @05:20PM (#31634959)
You're saying it's "absolutely not" compensated, and then you enumerating just some of the ways it's compensated?

I'm confused.

I didn't say it was fully compensated. Of course it's not.

But why should you have children, and expect "someone else" to pay for everything?

Nothing else in life works like that.

But yes, I've heard of the German child benefits, and tax rules for married couples, that are not optimal for an equal and fair society.

You say the compensation is "not enough". What would be? That "someone else" pays for the entire cost of your child? Why stop there? Why not demand salary from the government for choosing to raise a child?

Re:Restarting my career after motherhood by skrbjc on Monday June 06, 2022 @12:05AM (#31637157)
If I live in a country with public health care, and I choose to become morbidly obese, smoke cigarettes, excessively drink alcohol, develop diabetes, get limbs amputated, and go on disability because I can’t work, I’m expecting the government to foot the bill to keep me alive.

There are many choices people make that they expect others to pay for.

Re:Restarting my career after motherhood by knorker on Monday June 06, 2022 @06:21AM (#31638766)
True. But these people also die earlier.

I saw a study saying smokers are a net financial gain for society because of the huge savings on pension payments.

Re:Restarting my career after motherhood by ushakov on Sunday June 05, 2022 @11:42AM (#31631991)
in Germany the expectation is that you will inherit

if you’re not looking to inherit while you’re young, you end up in a whole different social hierarchy

Re:Restarting my career after motherhood by zen_1 on Sunday June 05, 2022 @11:52AM (#31632069)
Harrison Bergeron would approve, and I can only begin to imagine how this would be abused by vindictive spouses or exes to sabotage men's careers.
Re:Restarting my career after motherhood by razemio on Sunday June 05, 2022 @02:16PM (#31633484)
Harrison Bergeron distopia is a different topic in my opinion.

I agree with you that it might be impossible to enforce such a law without having the downsides you mentioned. However I would very much like being able to take 6 months of parental leave without being called lazy. This goes both ways.

Re:Restarting my career after motherhood by zen_1 on Sunday June 05, 2022 @02:34PM (#31633636)
Yeah the Harrison Bergeron example is definitely hyperbole
Re:Restarting my career after motherhood by k__ on Sunday June 05, 2022 @11:40AM (#31631969)
I know a bunch of women who ran a successful startup on the side of parental leave, so it can't be too bad.
Re:Restarting my career after motherhood by ushakov on Sunday June 05, 2022 @11:43AM (#31631993)
[this was a joke]
Re:Restarting my career after motherhood by WitCanStain on Sunday June 05, 2022 @11:45AM (#31632009)
This kind of presumptuous content does not belong here.