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Re:Google cancelled a talk on caste bias by noduerme on Thursday June 02, 2022 @07:23PM (#31601881)
>> Educating people like me about that would suddenly create the ability for them to identify a difference that they wouldn't have noticed before.

This seemingly small insight goes miles toward explaining the current American obsession with racial and gender identity. Gender/racial/age discrimination are not surface-level obvious in America these days, which is why once people are told they're being victimized and discriminated against for X reason, everything starts to look to them like a microaggression against their identity group. They're essentially told you have no choice, you are this. This in turn creates an artificial political base where you're supposed to put your X identity ahead of all other considerations and fight for X people, and since X people only vote for Party A or Party B, you're supposed to vote that way.

I can tell you why it's utter nonsense. Because these groupings are engineered, as you said, to make people identify a difference that they wouldn't have noticed before. The same people who claim racial identity is so central to one's "lived experience" and such a huge basis for discrimination are quick to tell me "well, you can choose not to be Jewish if you want."

Caste is like a whole new frontier. Surely, they'll say, you've been subjected to terrible treatment and it's changed you... you just don't realize how unfair it's been, but we can show you!

It is of course possible that other Indian-Americans can identify your caste, and have discriminated against you, without you realizing it. But if that's the case, you're lucky not to know, because the worst thing you can do is let a sense of victimization become a central part of your identity.

Re:Google cancelled a talk on caste bias by hahaxdxd123 on Thursday June 02, 2022 @08:24PM (#31602447)
> Gender/racial/age discrimination are not surface-level obvious in America these days

Yeah yea, tell that to the people who "ching chong" me whenever I leave the liberal coasts.

Incredible how you people paint one of America's greatest strengths, one that few other countries possess - the willingness to speak about racial problems and create a real _home_ for talented immigrants - as a bad thing. There's a reason people like Jenson Huang and Satya Nadella are not in France, for example.

The "American obsession with racial and gender identity" is a symptom of our desire for a better society and country, unlike the unobsessed French, 22.7% of whom are unwilling to live next to non-white neighbors[1].

[1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2013/05/15...

Re:Google cancelled a talk on caste bias by avar on Thursday June 02, 2022 @08:43PM (#31602641)
> "the unobsessed French, 22.7% of whom are unwilling to live next to non-white neighbors"

Numbers like that tell you little more than how blunt the French are, and what's considered acceptable to tell a pollster over the phone.

The real data is in the ground truth of ethnic divides.

I'm pretty sure the US's "white flight" phenomenon and its self-segregated inner cities are more pronounced than anything happening in France.

Re:Google cancelled a talk on caste bias by hahaxdxd123 on Friday June 03, 2022 @05:51PM (#31614136)
> I'm pretty sure the US's "white flight" phenomenon and its self-segregated inner cities are more pronounced than anything happening in France.

https://www.thelocal.fr/20171020/more-than-570-slums-house-1...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banlieue

Re:Google cancelled a talk on caste bias by noduerme on Thursday June 02, 2022 @11:13PM (#31603827)
I've experienced (and still experience) plenty of racist jokes, and some very not-well-meaning diatribes in my travels. I've been told point blank by a girl that her father would kill her and me if she brought me home.

Is it upsetting sometimes? Sure. But it only shows certain people's ignorance. It's not my identity.

Let me try to show my perspective. I come from a culture that is painfully aware of its minority status and a long history of extreme violence directed against it. I believe that the story of our persecution is valuable insofar as it makes us tolerant of others. But I have always believed that the factions in my own ethnic group who use victimhood to explain failures or to bolster their personal identity are committing what might be called "stolen valor". And that it in fact not only reflects negatively on the group, but is deeply corrosive to an individual over time, to frame one's understanding of interactions with the other groups in that way.

In short, even if it's absolutely true, it's a crutch. And when you want to see it everywhere, you can.

There's a blessing in being born different, or in a minority. It makes it easier to separate good people from assholes.

The discussion of racist history and racial integration is extremely important in America. But it's ill served by allowing race to be a marker for our individual identity, or to project an assumption of identity on other people. My people came here to get away from that and, even with discrimination, even being hated by some, to succeed on their personal hard work and their individual merits. Let the haters hate. Be bigger and don't let them define you.

Re:Google cancelled a talk on caste bias by crooked-v on Thursday June 02, 2022 @08:16PM (#31602397)
> Gender/racial/age discrimination are not surface-level obvious in America these days

We literally had a mass shooting within the last month that specifically targeted black people.

Re:Google cancelled a talk on caste bias by ZoomerCretin on Thursday June 02, 2022 @08:06PM (#31602298)
> Racism isn't real anymore, except for being a manufactured socio-political construct to create (D) voters

How sheltered are you that you believe this?

EDIT: Because calling you sheltered for your ignorance of racism isn't enough:

You're claiming that people who think they're experiencing racism are simply primed to view negative interactions as racism, raising their sensitivity and lowering their specificity of racist experiences (i.e. that they can't tell the difference between assholes or reasonable setbacks in life and racism).

You're using this perception of minorities' racist experiences to prime yourself to dismiss every racist experience. Do you see how this is problematic?

Re:Google cancelled a talk on caste bias by noduerme on Thursday June 02, 2022 @11:31PM (#31603958)
Please see my other responses. I'm not dismissing the fact that racism exists, and I've personally been the target of it dozens of times. I have an issue with the notion that it defines and circumscribes our experience as individuals, or that it should be grounds for declaring our identity or the presumed lived experience of others, because that's not a path out of it and it's immensely destructive to the project of equality to create categories of victimhood based on skin color. One of the things I find most racist and offensive is other people telling me how I should feel or what I've experienced because of my race. We've gone back fifty years in the name of "equity" which is, substantively, white people's way of continuing to divide people into racial groups while acting holy about it.
Re:Google cancelled a talk on caste bias by AYBABTME on Thursday June 02, 2022 @08:26PM (#31602461)
Please abstain from ad-hominem.
Re:Google cancelled a talk on caste bias by ZoomerCretin on Thursday June 02, 2022 @08:38PM (#31602577)
Interesting that OP can attack whole classes of people from an obviously privileged point of view, yet a mild but directed criticism of his ignorance is considered off-limits.
Re:Google cancelled a talk on caste bias by hypertele-Xii on Thursday June 02, 2022 @08:58PM (#31602820)
Your comment simply adds nothing. "Do you even know how wrong your beliefs are?", without any further elaboration or commentary, is just pointless. Explain yourself and provide references and you'll accumulate upvotes instead.
Re:Google cancelled a talk on caste bias by ZoomerCretin on Thursday June 02, 2022 @09:59PM (#31603331)
Edited my original comment, because apparently racists require nuanced dismissals of their wrong beliefs.
Re:Google cancelled a talk on caste bias by anon2020dot00 on Thursday June 02, 2022 @10:11PM (#31603410)
“There is some good in this world, and it’s worth fighting for.” —J.R.R. Tolkien
Re:Google cancelled a talk on caste bias by AYBABTME on Thursday June 02, 2022 @10:06PM (#31603379)
You edited your (now mild) comment after I wrote this.
Re:Google cancelled a talk on caste bias by kelnos on Thursday June 02, 2022 @08:57PM (#31602812)
Wow, this is just all absurd.

> But if that's the case, you're lucky not to know, because the worst thing you can do is let a sense of victimization become a central part of your identity.

But this really takes the cake. I'm not sure what bizarre leap of logic has led you to believe that the only options are "rank ignorance" and "extremist crusader".

Re:Google cancelled a talk on caste bias by vkou on Thursday June 02, 2022 @08:05PM (#31602293)
I think the worst thing you can do is continue to be victimized, without raising a fuss.

It is very convenient for <the people victimizing you/people made uncomfortable by you pointing this out> if you do just that, though.