Yes this is mentioned in the article

> the data cannot conclusively prove that coffee itself lowers the risk of dying; there may be other lifestyle factors contributing to that lower mortality risk among people who drink coffee, like a healthy diet or a consistent exercise routine

...and controlled for in the study

> lifestyle, sociodemographic, and clinical factors

I would just caution people to understand that saying that something is "controlled for" in an observational study (which is something I do all the time, I'm not saying it's bad) is not the same as saying that we've eliminated confounders, leaving a causal effect.

> all of those moderate drinking studies… I am quite certain nobody is getting a health benefit from alcohol.

The effect where moderate alcohol use is beneficial have disappeared after better studies. It didn't prevent it from becoming "common wisdom".

I'm still on a small glass of wine with my meal diet. I'm also a big fan of 6-7 meals a day.

Does this mean you consume 6-7 small glasses of wine a day?

Yes, and I think they were just being sarcastic.

Seems ridiculous to assume there aren't any health benefits from at least some types of alcohols at some levels of consumption. Just because the ill effects are better documented doesn't preclude the existence of benefits.

For the common person, the potential health benefits do not outweigh the potential damage -- especially when there are other ways to get the same health benefits with less risk. At least, that is the stance I believe the medical community has adopted.

yeah but just from mechanisms.. small organic solvent molecules aren't like, a promising target for antiaging treatments.. most solvents are bad for you, for obvious reasons, that is, they interfere with cellular chemistry and they have to be metabolized by the liver in large quantities. seems ridiculous to think alcohol would have any positive effects-- as a drug, it's just so shitty. I mean, you have to take 20g+ to get a physiological effect. The whole experience of having it in your system is dominated by the processes trying to get it /out/ of your system!

Folks who drink alcohol should consider taking safer and more powerful drugs.

Bah. I try to limit myself to a 6 pack a week, well under guidelines, but alcohol doesn't have a dramatically bad effect on mortality until you're in the 20 drink / week range.

I don't think alcohol is somehow better than anything else, but I don't think it's that harmful either until you get well beyond the 14d / wk max recommendation.

There are plenty of other factors like meat consumption and exercise habits that have a bigger effect. I'm not giving up one harmless vice for an infinitesimal benefit. We're all going to die of something.

> The whole experience of having it in your system is dominated by the processes trying to get it /out/ of your system!

That is not exclusive to alcohol though. I am not extremely drug-savvy, but I do believe this is true for psilocybin mushrooms and a few other hallucinogenic plants/fungi.

> Folks who drink alcohol should consider taking safer and more powerful drugs.

This is often an issue with legality and sourcing for many, not to mention the cultural acceptance of alcohol by many cultures.

Is that your interpretation of the data that they used?

Yes this seems extremely obvious. People with anxiety, sleep and/or heart problems are probably more likely to avoid coffee.

So the correlation is like a societal strength test of worthiness?

No, if coffee bothers your digestive system, you don't drink it. The reason it bothers your digestive system is you have other health problems that are undiagnosed/medicine doesn't understand yet. Those other health problems could contribute significantly to all cause mortality.

Not saying I agree, but thats my interpretation.

In fact, it says that decaf coffee also has that association, so that would mean it's not the caffeine.

It also says they don't make the same conclusion about artificially sweetened coffee (the study says it's "less consistent"—seems I need to pass the paywall to see the numbers on that). One wonders if they believe that the artificial sweeteners are killing people, or that they interfere with the benefits of coffee, or if they'd say this reveals that selection effects are strong here.

Decaf coffee still typically contains some caffeine: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/10/061012185602.h...