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Re:Ask HN: If Kubernetes is the solution, why are there so m... by dusanh on Wednesday June 01, 2022 @09:11AM (#31581314)
Asking as someone who has only tipped his toes into devops lately and is looking to learn K8, what is considered a reasonable "lightweight" alternative to Kubernetes these days?
Re:Ask HN: If Kubernetes is the solution, why are there so m... by jpgvm on Thursday June 02, 2022 @06:38AM (#31593324)
You may think you want an alternative but you don't.

The API is the main drawcard of k8s in the first place, if you are off in ECS land all you are doing is wasting a bunch of time on a dead-end.

I would instead focus on getting to understand the basics of the API by using a hosted k8s service like GKE or EKS. Stick with some basic manifests, i.e deployments, services, ingress.

Once you have some stuff running you can start learning how it really works and goes together, i.e what are pods, why are pods immutable, why is a replicaset, how does a deployment orchestrate multiple replicasets, what are endpoints, what is the difference between pod readiness/liveliness.

Don't cheat yourself this early in the game, just learn things the right way from the start and save yourself a bunch of work.

Re:Ask HN: If Kubernetes is the solution, why are there so m... by mmcnl on Thursday June 02, 2022 @02:08PM (#31598447)
I agree. I'd say the appeal of Kubernetes is the declarative configuration of your workloads. It's a language on its own that's incredibly versatile and exhaustive. This infrastructure abstraction layer is here to stay.
Re:Ask HN: If Kubernetes is the solution, why are there so m... by jstream67 on Wednesday June 01, 2022 @09:17AM (#31581392)
If you are on AWS you should check out ECS Fargate (serverless). It is really really good. Probably one of their more polished products.

If you want to stay on the Kubernetes route check out k3s. Super easy to setup and usable for small production workloads

Re:Ask HN: If Kubernetes is the solution, why are there so m... by Sohcahtoa82 on Wednesday June 01, 2022 @12:56PM (#31584700)
As a security engineer, I always cringe when anything involving containers is referred to as "serverless".

I always thought that one of the advantages of going serverless was that you didn't have to worry about keeping the underlying operating system up-to-date. No needing to do a monthly "sudo apt update && apt upgrade" or whatever. But containers throw that all away when container images enter the world.

Instead of updating your operating system, you're updating your images...and it's basically the same thing.

Re:Ask HN: If Kubernetes is the solution, why are there so m... by OJFord on Wednesday June 01, 2022 @02:05PM (#31585720)
Is anyone's goal of 'serverless' that they no longer have to deal with updating the OS?

Most would say even a server-ful system (k8s, or whatever) should be considered 'cattle not pets' with immutable nodes replaced as needed anyway. No update, just replace. Just like building a new image and having new pods (or serverless whatevers) pull it.

Re:Ask HN: If Kubernetes is the solution, why are there so m... by thakoppno on Wednesday June 01, 2022 @08:05PM (#31589735)
The cattle not pets abstraction always struck me as wildly bizarre. Whoever came up with that phrase, did they grow up on a farm?

I’ve never cordoned off an individual head of cattle and lobotomized it, which is kinda what we do when debugging issues. We take the pod out of rotation, flip a bunch of configs, then give it some traffic to see the new debugging statements.

Re:Ask HN: If Kubernetes is the solution, why are there so m... by Sohcahtoa82 on Wednesday June 01, 2022 @03:31PM (#31586835)
From a purely security standpoint, "updating your OS" and "updating your image" are equivalent. What matters to the security people are that you're running the latest OpenSSL that isn't vulnerable to the newest branded vulnerability.

If you're truly "serverless" by my interpretation of it, then you wouldn't care. Your cloud provider will have updated their infrastructure, and that's all that matters.

Re:Ask HN: If Kubernetes is the solution, why are there so m... by OJFord on Wednesday June 01, 2022 @04:28PM (#31587614)
Yeah I see what you're saying, that's a fair enough interpretation of it I just don't think it's the only one.

In fact almost nothing is serverless (well, the truth comes out! ;)) by that definition, since even Lambda has runtime versions to choose/upgrade, Managed-Acme has Acme versions, etc.

SES, SNS, SQS, etc. sure, but I suppose no compute, since you need libraries, and libraries have versions, and you can't have them (significantly/major versions) changing under your feet. (Or if they don't have versions they're of course destined to have known security holes.)

(Or it's not even about libraries if you want to say no you don't need libraries - it's just about having to interface with anything.)

Re:Ask HN: If Kubernetes is the solution, why are there so m... by kuschku on Thursday June 02, 2022 @07:00AM (#31593463)
AppEngine was the original serverless platform
Re:Ask HN: If Kubernetes is the solution, why are there so m... by jeffwask on Wednesday June 01, 2022 @10:37AM (#31582399)
I second this. There are a few limitations in Fargate that are annoying but overall it's solid and easy to use.
Re:Ask HN: If Kubernetes is the solution, why are there so m... by netfortius on Thursday June 02, 2022 @01:41AM (#31591735)
How does k3s compare with MicroK8s, for the purpose of this topic?
Re:Ask HN: If Kubernetes is the solution, why are there so m... by dewey on Wednesday June 01, 2022 @09:45AM (#31581725)
> what is considered a reasonable "lightweight" alternative to Kubernetes these days

Before I used Kubernetes for my side projects and only at work I always thought it's hard to operate and very tricky. If you start with an empty "default" cluster and then just add bits when you need them it's actually not that complicated and doesn't feel too heavyweight. I'd suggest to just play around with a simple example and then see how it goes.

There's things that are used in "production" clusters that you don't need at the beginning, like rbac rules, Prometheus annotations etc.

Re:Ask HN: If Kubernetes is the solution, why are there so m... by digianarchist on Wednesday June 01, 2022 @10:38AM (#31582422)
HashiCorp Nomad is a good alternative.
Re:Ask HN: If Kubernetes is the solution, why are there so m... by jhillyerd on Wednesday June 01, 2022 @01:56PM (#31585560)
I've started running Nomad in my homelab, and it is a great piece of software. Although I feel like the question is sort of flawed, if you want to learn Kubernetes, you are going to need to run Kubernetes - or one of the downsized versions of it.

If you want to learn about containers, distributed workloads, etc, then Nomad is a great option that is easy to learn/adopt piecemeal.

Re:Ask HN: If Kubernetes is the solution, why are there so m... by everfrustrated on Wednesday June 01, 2022 @10:09AM (#31582019)
Definitely check out all the aws offerings under ECS

There's now even onprem ECS variants which means not having to pay aws very much and still get the benefit of them running and maintaining the control plane

Re:Ask HN: If Kubernetes is the solution, why are there so m... by dublin on Wednesday June 01, 2022 @07:26PM (#31589437)
Not an alternative, but if you want to get a feel for Kubernetes and managing various kinds of servers, check out KubeSail and their options for K8s/K3s

It's ridiculous overkill, but I'm looking at a NextCloud server on one of their PiBox hardware servers for the house. (You don't need a PiBox - their stuff will run fine on little instances from AWS/DigitalOcean/Hertzner, etc., or a spare PC you have lying around...)

Re:Ask HN: If Kubernetes is the solution, why are there so m... by dosethree on Wednesday June 01, 2022 @02:29PM (#31586068)
K8s ate everyone else. The alternative is to use a heroku like sass
Re:Ask HN: If Kubernetes is the solution, why are there so m... by mastazi on Wednesday June 01, 2022 @06:48PM (#31589134)
In my particular market sector it seems everyone is using some form of cloud functions (SAM, Serverless Framework etc), and migrating away from K8S/containers.

Regarding PaaS stuff like Heroku, the only people I know that are still using that are solo hackers.

Re:Ask HN: If Kubernetes is the solution, why are there so m... by subsection1h on Wednesday June 01, 2022 @08:31PM (#31589909)
That's interesting. In the latest Who Is Hiring discussion, there seems to be more than 10 times as many references to Kubernetes compared to serverless. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31582796
Re:Ask HN: If Kubernetes is the solution, why are there so m... by mastazi on Thursday June 02, 2022 @06:25AM (#31593262)
Interesting, you're right, I see 3 occurrences for "lambda" and 26 for "kubernetes". It's probably just the paritcular "bubble" I live in.
Re:Ask HN: If Kubernetes is the solution, why are there so m... by horlux on Wednesday June 01, 2022 @12:21PM (#31584185)
if you only use Services, Deployments and ConfigMaps then k8s can be simple too