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Re:Food security and the coming storm by ajsnigrutin on Sunday May 29, 2022 @03:40PM (#31552180)
I find two things funny... it might be a local thing (i'm from slovenia) but yeah...

1) gas was ~1.5eur here, then it fell to 1.0eur during the plague, and there were zero price drops beacause of that, and when the price started rising to 1.1, 1.2, 1.3 eur, everybody (farmers, retailers) started complaining about increasing gas prices and how that will result in higher consumer prices (even before we hit the price a year before that).

2) farmers complain about low prices they get from processors (and retailers).. then you want to buy meat directly from them, and their price is usually a lot higher than in-store price (even though there are usually two or more middle-men between them and the store), and you cannot choose anything... want steaks? Want beef thigh? Hah, good luck.. you can only buy 10, 20kg+ of "mixed beef", where 90% is "meat for goulash" (hard, cheap cuts) and 10% bones for soup. So yeah... it's Aldi for me.

Also, there were farmers complaining that they had a bunch of food that they had to throw away because of the plague (eg. contract with school, school closed, a few tons of salad had to be thrown out)... noone offered for people to come buy stuff directly from them at whatever cheap price,.. in the meantime in-store prices were relatively expensive for that same salad.

Re:Food security and the coming storm by abandonliberty on Sunday May 29, 2022 @05:31PM (#31553071)
Farmers expect you to pay extra for the inconvenience, in addition to already cutting out the middle-men. Same thing everywhere I've been in more developed countries across North America and Asia. Even Bali.

The most charitable interpretation is that farmers are simply not as optimized as grocery stores, resulting in a higher overall cost.

Re:Food security and the coming storm by thematrixturtle on Sunday May 29, 2022 @10:10PM (#31554859)
Well, it's also that the people with the time and mobility to drive up to farms to buy local organic produce also tend to be price insensitive, so it makes sense for the farmer to price accordingly.

This also applies to wineries: buying a bottle directly at the cellar door is almost always more expensive buying it at $LIQUOR_SUPERSTORE, but the people plonking down $100 for a bottle don't care, so this is a perfectly sensible pricing strategy.

Re:Food security and the coming storm by daxfohl on Sunday May 29, 2022 @04:09PM (#31552432)
Sounds like the ideal is to frame the food system after the US medical system.

You can't find out what something is going to cost until after you've eaten it. You have to have food consumption insurance to get things at reasonable cost. Food insurance companies charge astronomical rates unless you're part of some group plan.

Re:Food security and the coming storm by ajsnigrutin on Sunday May 29, 2022 @04:10PM (#31552439)
Or regulate price transparancies... how much does the farmer get, how much the processor, how much the retailer, and how much goes to taxes.
Re:Food security and the coming storm by ThunderSizzle on Sunday May 29, 2022 @09:47PM (#31554732)
Then the government will need to admit much of a price tag is taxes, probably 1st after taxes.
Re:Food security and the coming storm by ajsnigrutin on Sunday May 29, 2022 @10:05PM (#31554833)
People have been waking up to this during the current gas price crisis... governments say they're doing everything they can, but they can't do more, because of the global oil prices,...

...meanwhile more than half of the gas price goes to the government, and people are notcing.

Re:Food security and the coming storm by imtringued on Monday May 30, 2022 @06:23AM (#31557413)
How is a market price distortion (artificially lowering gas prices through tax cuts) supposed to solve the gas price crisis? You want people to use less gas, so there is more left over for the industries that actually need it. You don't want consumers to use subsidized gas wastefully.
Re:Food security and the coming storm by ajsnigrutin on Monday May 30, 2022 @08:11AM (#31558175)
You also want people to be able to get to work and not freeze to death in their apartments, and still be able to afford food after that.

It's not a gas crisis, there's enough gas, it's a politics crisis.

Re:Food security and the coming storm by zdragnar on Sunday May 29, 2022 @10:37PM (#31554992)
The idea of a federal gas tax holiday has apparently been floating around DC lately, but I'm pretty skeptical that they'll be able to return to full taxes without significant pushback.
Re:Food security and the coming storm by vstck17 on Sunday May 29, 2022 @10:39PM (#31555007)
In the US, the federal gas tax has been 18.4 cents per gallon since 1993.

If anything, they are losing money with inflation and the decreased demand that higher fuel prices will create.

Re:Food security and the coming storm by ajsnigrutin on Monday May 30, 2022 @01:19PM (#31561232)
This depends on the country.

In slovenia we had regulated gas prices until 2020 - https://www.gov.si/assets/ministrstva/MGRT/Dokumenti/DNT/cen... [docx]

If we look at the last price (top row), the price (without any taxes) was 0.395eur/l. Then they add (in column order) CO2 tax, "saving energy tax", excise duty ("trošarina"), "tax to help electricity production", and VAT (DDV), bringing the total price to 1.00eur. The total of taxes added is ~153% of the base price (0.395 without -> 1eur with tax).

Re:Food security and the coming storm by anamax on Monday May 30, 2022 @10:02AM (#31559058)
States also charge tax on gas.

For example, California charges both $0.539 per gallon AND sales tax. The latter varies based on city/county/district and is charged on the "after per-gallon tax" price.

The total sales tax in San Jose is 9.375%, so $6.50 at the pump includes $0.557 in sales tax. (The "at the pump" price includes sales tax.)

That's a total of $1.096/g state and local for $6.50/g at the pump.

Add in the federal $0.184/g and the total tax is $1.28/g on $6.50/g gas in San Jose.

There may also be permit fees.

Re:Food security and the coming storm by Nasrudith on Sunday May 29, 2022 @05:32PM (#31553080)
Economies of scale strike again it seems, for #2. Cows are big. 20 kilograms is practically nothing and the efficency is low at very small scales. Consumers often operate under the delusion that cost is fixed per item in all locations, at all levels of demand and any increased prices are pure opportunism.
Re:Food security and the coming storm by ajsnigrutin on Sunday May 29, 2022 @05:38PM (#31553136)
It's not just cows.. it's potatoes too... they pick up potatoes and have a warehouse full of them, you want to buy a sack (5, 10kg) from them, and they offer you a price, again, higher than aldi. And i'm talking about the same farmers who sell their produce to aldi and complain about how little money they get from aldi and how (relatively) high the price in aldi is.

I understand that a cow is a logistic process, where after slaughter, you have to get rid of the whole cow, not just the "best parts", but selling potatos is literally just packing a bag and weighing them, but nope...

Same with apples in the autumn, complain about low prices from companies, then not wanting to sell them at retail price (with two middlemen gone).

Re:Food security and the coming storm by dgfitz on Sunday May 29, 2022 @07:32PM (#31553902)
Whenever I buy a side of beef from a local farmer, I pay the farmer and then pay the butcher. I believe the butcher deals with the “not best parts” much more often than the farmer does, but I’m not an expert and this is an n=1 data point.
Re:Food security and the coming storm by imtringued on Monday May 30, 2022 @06:25AM (#31557435)
It's possible that direct buyers are subsidizing the aldi prices. It's basically a donation to keep the farm alive at that point.
Re:Food security and the coming storm by zdragnar on Sunday May 29, 2022 @10:35PM (#31554979)
Farmers aren't salespeople. They often don't want to deal with the hassle of selling a part here, a part there. You want a tenderloin? What is the farmer supposed to do with the rest of it?

Far easier, more predictable and less wasteful of the animals to sell the entire lot to processors, who then deal with butchering, packaging and distributing individual cuts for them.

I could do one off short term programming contracts, but my customers would definitely pay much more for the overhead of me making a living that way vs simply getting a salaried job.