right, that’s basically my point: i think we can draw a distinction between a coercive control here (i.e. forcing someone to do something they otherwise wouldn’t want to do), and an incentive/root issue correction (i.e. encouragement/elimination of need).

to suggest that both approaches are basically same because the end result is the same, would be like saying all discussion is manipulation.

put bluntly, if people commit crime we could end all crime by killing all people. clearly this is worse than any suggestion thus far :)