Oh, how could I forget about the fall of Hong Kong?

"An unarmed people are slaves, or are subject to slavery at any given moment." —Huey P Newton

The holocaust is a good example.

It is difficult for governments to commit large scale atrocities without the consent of the governed unless those so governed are first disarmed.

A more modern example was the prohibition of the free movement of the Australian population during covid. Australians were held prisoner by the state and were not permitted to leave.

> It is difficult for governments to commit large scale atrocities

Let me guess, public school teachers teaching... gasp... CRT? Indoctrinating children?

Oh my, the government!

The Holocaust was a result of populism in Germany. The oppressed people wouldn't have been able to protect themselves from the majority of Germans and the German military, even if they were armed.

I trust the American government far more to not start the next holocaust than I do the armed American populace.

And if the American government were to start the next holocaust, I don't trust the armed American populace to stop them.

I really doubt we are in for another Holocaust. Government restricting movement during a pandemic is not a valid reason to literally shoot someone dead, that is literally pure insanity.

What is happening right now isn't the Holocaust. What is happening right now - and has been happening for years - are weekly mass shootings.

This doesn't happen anywhere else in the world. It only happens in the US. Guns are clearly the problem.

Something tells me that even an armed militia of the people wouldn't be much of an obstacle for a military power such as Germany or America.

The military would have its hands full with an unarmed but willing and united population.

> It is difficult for governments to commit large scale atrocities without the consent of the governed unless those so governed are first disarmed.

Not when the government has tanks, attack helicopters and assorted hardware that IS prohibited for the public to own

> A more modern example was the prohibition of the free movement of the Australian population during covid. Australians were held prisoner by the state and were not permitted to leave.

Not true. You could leave and you could also enter - but would have to stay in mandatory quarantine.

I hate that argument about how gun owners would not pose a credible threat to the US military.

We've demonstrated time and time again what a determined populace in their home region is capable of doing to a technologically and numerically superior opponent.

Such as in Vietnam which isn't incredibly dissimilar from the deep South, or Afghanistan which is very similar to the environment you would find in Idaho and Wyoming.

I mean the wider discussion can still be had but if the federal government decided to start a fight over this it would be very similar to an Afghanistan or Vietnam situation but about 2-3x worse as the area to cover would be much larger and would likely have to deal with internal problems in the military as they tend to be very well represented in the pro-gun crowd.

Unless your suggesting the US military would start carrying out strategic bombing operations against its own citizens on its own soil.

Fine, it's the threat of your guns that is doing such a grand job of keeping you all so very free.

Almost 1% of US citizens are in prison. Your police forces routinely brutalise and oppress large parts of your population even though (or perhaps because) you are all armed to the teeth. The majority of your fellow citizens are a couple of paychecks or one health scare away from homelessness, your social security safety nets are in tatters and your collective Labour rights have been eroded away over the last 50 years. Thank goodness you've got your guns or your government might screw you over

> Almost 1% of US citizens are in prison.

Gun rights have been systematically (illegally) denied the demographics that comprise the majority of those so imprisoned, which furthers the argument that large cross-sections of the population being armed reduces violence.

> Your police forces routinely brutalise and oppress large parts of your population even though (or perhaps because) you are all armed to the teeth.

Those are the groups frequently denied weapons. The police generally actively avoid armed confrontation with those they know to be armed (such as we recently saw in Texas). This is one of the reasons it's so easy for them to shoot and kill (mostly unarmed) minorities.

" You could leave and you could also enter - but would have to stay in mandatory quarantine. "

Not true: https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/F2020L00306/Html/Text

"An Australian citizen or permanent resident (the person) must not leave Australian territory as a passenger on an outgoing aircraft or vessel on or after the time this instrument commences"

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-59058945 "Australia has confirmed it will lift a ban next week that has prevented its own citizens travelling overseas without permission."