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Re:When can liquid democracy unveil the truth? (2021) by s1artibartfast on Sunday May 22, 2022 @03:20PM (#31471723)
>The way to solve the problem you want to solve is with rights, constitutions, charters and such things, not definitions

I get the sentiment, but these are imperfect solutions. Rights, constitutions, and charters an also be democratically removed. If anything, they simply add a barrier or delay, which I would agree is a good thing for something as significant as revoking a right.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_ratifying_conventions

Re:When can liquid democracy unveil the truth? (2021) by guerrilla on Sunday May 22, 2022 @03:27PM (#31471802)
Yeah, I know, but you can have much higher requirements, even consensus. As long as the requirements are higher than the population minus the smallest minority then it'd be hard to be a problem... You could also make them immutable to, so that people just have to leave to change them, but depending on what kinds of systems your talking about, that could require all kinds of other changes too.
Re:When can liquid democracy unveil the truth? (2021) by s1artibartfast on Sunday May 22, 2022 @03:51PM (#31472031)
Im game for some friendly exploration of the topic if you are.

While I am a firm believer in immutable rights in the philosophical sense, immutable rights do not and can not exist in the physical/political world. Rights in the physical world are always dependent on the ability and will to exercise force.

I agree that you can establish constitutions which create barriers and make change difficult as long as people are willing to adhere to the governing constitution.

Ultimately, you still need to come up with a purpose of a political system and criteria for discerning a good one from a bad one, no matter what your selected criteria is.

Re:When can liquid democracy unveil the truth? (2021) by avgcorrection on Sunday May 22, 2022 @03:36PM (#31471899)
> Yeah, I know, but you can have much higher requirements, even consensus.

Yes, exactly. Some things can require a consensus decision making process. Some things can require that the people agree to it through multiple rounds. Some things can be changed easily, like parking regulations in your neighborhood. Some other things should require more effort.

Thanks for countering your own original argument.

Re:When can liquid democracy unveil the truth? (2021) by avgcorrection on Sunday May 22, 2022 @03:32PM (#31471862)
Everything and anything can be removed under any kind of regime. What is the point being made here?
Re:When can liquid democracy unveil the truth? (2021) by s1artibartfast on Sunday May 22, 2022 @04:09PM (#31472229)
The point is that the original criticism raised by guerrilla (that democracy should not primarily serve the interests of the majority) is unavoidable.

Democratic political systems can only add friction and delay the execution of the majority will and no democratic system is capable of maintaining immutable rights against a sufficient public interest.

In this sense, the criticism is empty because there is no alternative.

Re:When can liquid democracy unveil the truth? (2021) by avgcorrection on Sunday May 22, 2022 @04:29PM (#31472416)
> In this sense, the criticism is empty because there is no alternative.

Seems that we agree.