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Re:Twitter CEO fires two top executives, freezes hiring by sudosysgen on Thursday May 12, 2022 @07:46PM (#31361461)
By the time Tesla had sold 100,000 Model S cars in the US, Nissan had already sold over 110 000 Leafs.

Tesla created the market for high-performance EVs. They did not create the overall EV market. The high-end market is only a small part of the numbers.

Re:Twitter CEO fires two top executives, freezes hiring by zamfi on Friday May 13, 2022 @09:34AM (#31367383)
The Leaf that Nissan sold while the Model S was Tesla’s only sedan (ie 2012-2017) was not an ICE-equivalent vehicle. It was explicitly a city vehicle with a < 75 mile official range, an effective 40-50 mile range, and no fast charging.

If “high-performance” means “can handle the daily driving needs of > 50% of the population” then I guess you’re right, Tesla only created that market.

Re:Twitter CEO fires two top executives, freezes hiring by sudosysgen on Friday May 13, 2022 @01:34PM (#31370399)
The daily-driving needs of 95% of the population are incompatible with a 100k$ car. The Leaf fit the needs of more people simply by virtue of having an acceptable price.

The Zoe also had a 150km+ effective range, which is more than enough for most people (maybe less so for Americans).

Re:Twitter CEO fires two top executives, freezes hiring by SemanticStrengh on Friday May 13, 2022 @08:31PM (#31373958)
zoe was 210km and very cheap, it's mystery why it didn't took off
Re:Twitter CEO fires two top executives, freezes hiring by zamfi on Friday May 13, 2022 @11:11PM (#31374771)
The Model S was the first EV that “happened to be” an EV. You didn’t have to compromise on range, power, comfort, or anything else to own it. That’s why it succeeded. It was a great car, and happened to be an EV.

Tesla’s chief designer himself: “We are past the idea of an environmentally friendly vehicle needing to look different. People don't want to sacrifice anything, including style, to own an efficient car.”

Re:Twitter CEO fires two top executives, freezes hiring by sudosysgen on Saturday May 14, 2022 @01:06AM (#31375241)
You definitely needed to compromise on range power and comfort. The 60kWh version was more expensive than an BMW M4, S5, or A6, all in more powerful, comfortable, etc...

You definitely had to compromise to own it, on almost everything aspect. Despite everything else, people were buying it because it was electric.

Re:Twitter CEO fires two top executives, freezes hiring by zamfi on Saturday May 14, 2022 @01:35PM (#31380331)
Every $100k vehicle is different, that’s not what “compromise” means. And the Model S had comparable power and comfort — not for everyone of course — to the cars you mention. Obviously people were buying it because it was electric, that added $30k in battery cost alone, you wouldn’t do that if you didn’t care about it being electric.

But my point is that could do everything an American expects a baseline car, like a Honda Civic, could do - it worked as a car in addition to being electric, which is more than can be said for the Leaf and Zoe, on range and charge time concerns alone.

Re:Twitter CEO fires two top executives, freezes hiring by sudosysgen on Saturday May 14, 2022 @05:04PM (#31382418)
The Model S had far inferior comfort, especially the 2012 version. It got better. You had to compromise on everything in exchange of getting an electric car.

> But my point is that could do everything an American expects a baseline car, like a Honda Civic, could do - it worked as a car in addition to being electric, which is more than can be said for the Leaf and Zoe, on range and charge time concerns alone.

Sure, at 100k$, which is too much for what an American expects of a baseline car. I am sure Renault and Nissan could have done it to if they had multiplied the price by 4, but then it would defeat the entire purpose of a practical everyday car. It's like saying that Ferrari makes practical every day cars because of the GTC4Lusso.

Re:Twitter CEO fires two top executives, freezes hiring by zamfi on Sunday May 15, 2022 @04:17PM (#31390674)
I can't tell if either I'm doing a terrible job making my point, or you're deliberately misunderstanding me.

Let me ask you this: The Model S outsold the Leaf and the Zoe, and helped launch a new car company that has now sold more BEVs than any other manufacturer. Why do you think that is?

One possibility is that they made EVs that many people wanted to buy, and people bought them. I'm proposing that this is the case, and the fact that the Model S sold well despite costing $100k is an extremely strong indicator of this.

New EVs, even those from established manufacturers, are emulating Tesla, not the Leaf or Zoe.

Without Tesla, we may have had many Leaf or Zoe-like vehicles, but given how uptake of those vehicles went, it seems unlikely that we'd be where we are today -- in California, in 2021, BEVs were ~10% of all new vehicles sold.

Personal opinions of the cost or style of Tesla's EVs aside, one can't deny that Tesla made EVs attractive in the eyes of Californian consumers, and as goes California, so goes the world (for better or worse).

Re:Twitter CEO fires two top executives, freezes hiring by alvah on Thursday May 12, 2022 @08:13PM (#31361661)
"The high-end market is only a small part of the numbers" correct, but in a parallel universe where Tesla didn't exist & the typical EV looked & performed like a Leaf, would anyone actually want an electric car? Marketing and psychology are important.
Re:Twitter CEO fires two top executives, freezes hiring by sudosysgen on Saturday May 14, 2022 @05:05PM (#31382440)
Sure, as evidenced by the fact that more people bought cars that performed like the Leaf and Zoe than Model S's.

Also the Renault Zoe looked just like the Renault Clio, that is, a normal car.

Re:Twitter CEO fires two top executives, freezes hiring by alvah on Wednesday May 18, 2022 @12:41PM (#31424858)
bought != wanted...