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Re:Finland will seek NATO membership immediately by vitus on Thursday May 12, 2022 @06:39AM (#31351957)
Re: illiberalism:

https://budapestbeacon.com/full-text-of-viktor-orbans-speech...

"in this sense, the new state that we are building is an illiberal state, a non-liberal state. It does not deny foundational values of liberalism, as freedom, etc.. But it does not make this ideology a central element of state organization, but applies a specific, national, particular approach in its stead."

https://miniszterelnok.hu/prime-minister-viktor-orbans-speec...

"Let us confidently declare that Christian democracy is not liberal. Liberal democracy is liberal, while Christian democracy is, by definition, not liberal: it is, if you like, illiberal." (Orban then stands that up on three pillars: prioritizing Christian culture, being anti-immigration, and the Christian family model.)

(There are almost assuredly more speeches.)

Re:Finland will seek NATO membership immediately by skissane on Thursday May 12, 2022 @10:39AM (#31354880)
Question: when Orban says “liberal” or “illiberal”, what does he actually mean by those terms?

Worth keeping in mind that Americans and Europeans (especially Continentals/non-Anglophones) may have rather different definitions of “liberal”: “American conservatism, with its Lockean roots, is—from a Continental point of view—not really conservatism, but rather, old-school liberalism.” [0]

Similarly: what’s the difference between a “neoconservative” and a “neoliberal”? The terms have a lot of overlap, many people could be equally described by both: but if a neoconservative can also be a neoliberal, then what’s the difference between “conservative” and “liberal”?

And then I remember that I come from a country whose main “conservative” party is called the “Liberal Party of Australia” (or just “the Liberals” for short). Many of its members and leaders will defend the apparent contradiction by saying “We are conservatives, but we are also classical liberals”-a line I’ve also heard from right-of-centre Americans.

See also “conservative liberalism” [1] - which of course is obviously a very different thing from “liberal conservatism” [2]

Tis all as clear as mud

[0] https://europeanconservative.com/articles/commentary/the-big...

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservative_liberalism

[2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_conservatism

Re:Finland will seek NATO membership immediately by blibble on Thursday May 12, 2022 @01:23PM (#31357114)
liberal in the US sense seems to mean left

whereas in Europe it means anti-authoritarian

Re:Finland will seek NATO membership immediately by bfrog on Thursday May 12, 2022 @08:18AM (#31352910)
Sounds like Hungary doesn’t want Islamic culture coming in and rioting
Re:Finland will seek NATO membership immediately by pmoriarty on Thursday May 12, 2022 @08:40AM (#31353154)
From HN's guidelines[1]:

"Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. It tramples curiosity."

"Eschew flamebait."

[1] - https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html