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Re:Python Language Summit: Python Without the GIL by Someone on Thursday May 12, 2022 @02:57AM (#31350123)
FTA: Overall, there was still a large amount of excitement and curiosity about nogil mode from the attendees.

⇒ I don’t see this as a team of worn-down maintainers, but rather as a team of seasoned developers, who know you don’t turn a project with millions of users around on a dime.

One question I miss is whether the set of locks this change introduces is the optimal one.

I would think that, if it were to be improved upon in the future, C extensions would have to be changed again, so you’d rather not do that often.

Re:Python Language Summit: Python Without the GIL by throwaway894345 on Thursday May 12, 2022 @06:15AM (#31351728)
> who know you don’t turn a project with millions of users around on a dime

Hasn’t this gil/nogil saga been going on for ~decades? What about fixing packaging or limiting the C-extension interface? I have enormous sympathy of what the Python maintainers are up against, but “on a dime” seems hard to justify.

Re:Python Language Summit: Python Without the GIL by mumblemumble on Thursday May 12, 2022 @09:42AM (#31354033)
Python nerfing C extensions would be like McDonald's deciding to de-emphasize burgers on their menu. Sure, other foods are healthier and get more positive buzz on Twitter. But it turns out that the burgers are still the main thing bringing people to the restaurant.
Re:Python Language Summit: Python Without the GIL by throwaway894345 on Thursday May 12, 2022 @10:04AM (#31354384)
I wasn’t talking about nerfing C-extensions. You can get the same power out of a smaller, well-defined interface that would give the interpreter a lot more leeway for optimization. This optimizations would therefore make native Python packages more feasible, making the ecosystem less dependent on C extensions. Anyway, I don’t think people use Python because of the C-extensions packages (although there are certainly some exceptions e.g., pandas), I think people use C extensions because the native performance is so poor.
Re:Python Language Summit: Python Without the GIL by pwang on Thursday May 12, 2022 @04:59PM (#31360070)
Over 50% of Python users report using it for data-related things, e.g. data science, ML, etc. (Jetbrains poll)

That's numpy, pandas, sklearn, and friends.

Re:Python Language Summit: Python Without the GIL by throwaway894345 on Thursday May 12, 2022 @09:09PM (#31362052)
Fair enough. I defer to JetBrains on that point.
Re:Python Language Summit: Python Without the GIL by fulafel on Saturday May 21, 2022 @02:35AM (#31455766)
This analogy is I think also favourable for the sea change: cecause we need to cut down on beef use due to climate reasons, and unless we plan to crash the climate, the end of bargain priced meat means that McDonalds needs to switch from meat to other kinds of burgers.