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Re:Neoliberalism has resulted in preference for greater inco... by incomingpain on Wednesday May 11, 2022 @07:53AM (#31338559)
The phase of politics we have entered is the post-culture wars. It's no longer red vs blue. It's wealth redistribution vs not. "Pay my college tuition loans!" or "give me $ for a new ev car"

But break down what that means? The predominantly rich are who get into those ivy league schools and rack up giant student loans. You're planning to pay off rich kids loans?

Anyone who already paid off the loans gets nothing? People who didn't go to university gets nothing? Also how's that money printing going? 8.5% inflation and still rising... You want more of that?

Lets go further. Let's just imagine we decide to reset. They print a million $ per person and everyone gets it. Everyone is back to equality.

Inflation will obviously blow up and find some equilibrium eventually. We eliminate all debt. What happens? The poor will burn that million so fast. It's the mentality of the psyche, no different than a dog who eats their food as fast as possible fearing they might lose it.

The rich take the million and buy as much investments as possible right away.

In a couple years we go check on how things are doing... the rich are rich. the poor are poor. Nothing changes. People need to understand that money doesn't work this way. Want to eliminate inequality? Teach people to not be poor, teach them to bust their butt doing something useful to society.

Re:Neoliberalism has resulted in preference for greater inco... by lta on Wednesday May 11, 2022 @08:35AM (#31339009)
It's the poor's fault they are poor, is that it ? They should bet on the right numbers in the lottery, right ?

The non-stop growth of income and wealth inequality for a few decades is only fair, because if you weren't able to pay for tuition, you could still scrub toilets very very very fast and and become rich !

It's no secret to anyone who has been doing any kind of reading about economy and/or investment that money makes money. I'd like to contrast that by mentioning a quite interesting report by the french senate a few years ago which was titled "It's very expensive to be poor" [1]

I'm a entrepreneur and I'm not here to claim that we shouldn't have a free market, but I feel sick in my stomach when I feel like I'm reading that poor are meant to be poor or that it's only their fault. A lot of indicators tends to show the game is more and more biased.

As a sidenote, as i think quite a few readers are americans: I've been living in the US for a few years and I was really astonished by the lack / or malfunction of the social elevator in that country. The American Dream seemed long gone to me.

[1] https://www.senat.fr/rap/r13-388/r13-38818.html (french only, sorry)

Re:Neoliberalism has resulted in preference for greater inco... by incomingpain on Wednesday May 11, 2022 @10:56AM (#31340894)
>It's the poor's fault they are poor, is that it ? They should bet on the right numbers in the lottery, right ?

Yes, if you have the poor mentality you will be poor. There's no rich people who bet on the lottery.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krTo4W7Z2vk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31qfjBEyKds

>The non-stop growth of income and wealth inequality for a few decades is only fair, because if you weren't able to pay for tuition, you could still scrub toilets very very very fast and and become rich !

I don't know you but I have a feeling those 2 videos are going to benefit you greatly.

>It's no secret to anyone who has been doing any kind of reading about economy and/or investment that money makes money. I'd like to contrast that by mentioning a quite interesting report by the french senate a few years ago which was titled "It's very expensive to be poor" [1]

Income inequality at the top end derives heavily from credit score and the ability to take on debt yes. There's no better way to handle this. Nothing tried so far has produced a better outcome. If you have a solution to replacing credit score... I'm all ears.

Also note, we will NEVER EVER be repealing glass steagal or equivalent to fix inner city ghettos with subprime loans ever again. It'll be many decades before we try to fix inner city ghettos again. In fact, I expect no politicians talk about inner city ghettos ever again because of that 2009 financial crisis.

>I'm a entrepreneur and I'm not here to claim that we shouldn't have a free market, but I feel sick in my stomach when I feel like I'm reading that poor are meant to be poor or that it's only their fault. A lot of indicators tends to show the game is more and more biased.

More and more biased? In what way? Yes regulations and higher taxes are making the situation worse on the poor. Rent control and minimum wage is doing tremendous harm to the USA.

>As a sidenote, as i think quite a few readers are americans: I've been living in the US for a few years and I was really astonished by the lack / or malfunction of the social elevator in that country. The American Dream seemed long gone to me.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_mobility

What you are referring to is social mobility. Yes, something went very wrong in the USA. They were clearly #1 for a long time, but now they are in last place. Why? If you look at the options on that wiki page, you are basically forced to agree or come to the conclusion, culture/poormentality and housing are the USA's problem.

Re:Neoliberalism has resulted in preference for greater inco... by hamter on Wednesday May 11, 2022 @08:14AM (#31338770)
> The predominantly rich are who get into those ivy league schools and rack up giant student loans. You're planning to pay off rich kids loans?

that one's gonna need a citation lol.

> Also how's that money printing going? 8.5% inflation and still rising... You want more of that?

ask the corporations that are posting record profits in spite of this inflation

> The poor will burn that million so fast. It's the mentality of the psyche, no different than a dog who eats their food as fast as possible fearing they might lose it.

break out the calipers boys

> The rich take the million and buy as much investments as possible right away.

wait i thought we were getting inflation that makes the million meaningless

> In a couple years we go check on how things are doing... the rich are rich. the poor are poor. Nothing changes. People need to understand that money doesn't work this way. Want to eliminate inequality? Teach people to not be poor, teach them to bust their butt doing something useful to society.

real rich dad / poor dad hours here

Re:Neoliberalism has resulted in preference for greater inco... by incomingpain on Wednesday May 11, 2022 @08:30AM (#31338945)
>that one's gonna need a citation lol.

The whole point of education is that getting it will make you rich. the point I was making though is that statistically the people who get post-secondary educations are from rich families.

https://www.ajc.com/blog/get-schooled/college-admissions-the...

This is a leading reason why the rich get richer and the poor stay poor. The big question is if single-payer post-secondary makes sense and while Germany for example does have this... they vastly restrict what you can take. Liberal arts is basically not something you can take in germany.

>ask the corporations that are posting record profits in spite of this inflation

In a high inflation environment, the corporations will always post good profits. It's not the other way around where corporations create inflation, quite the opposite.

>wait i thought we were getting inflation that makes the million meaningless

Oh ya, print that much money and inflation would be insane; it would ultimately be meaningless but the point being illustrated is that even if we equaled the playing field, inequality would come right back.

Re:Neoliberalism has resulted in preference for greater inco... by robertlagrant on Wednesday May 11, 2022 @08:16AM (#31338795)
> wait i thought we were getting inflation that makes the million meaningless

Hence the investments, as the companies selling the things with inflated prices... will have inflated their prices :)

Re:Neoliberalism has resulted in preference for greater inco... by robertlagrant on Wednesday May 11, 2022 @08:14AM (#31338776)
Well, the only thing that really changes is technology. We don't need 30% of the population doing agricultural labour as we've automated most of it. We can transport goods long distances, giving us access to things no dreamed of 100 years ago. We can communicate instantly across the globe. These are all incredible achievements.

What is the case is that inequality may not go away, but if one's own standard of living is increasing with relatively little effort, then that's the main thing.

Re:Neoliberalism has resulted in preference for greater inco... by incomingpain on Wednesday May 11, 2022 @08:40AM (#31339058)
>Well, the only thing that really changes is technology. We don't need 30% of the population doing agricultural labour as we've automated most of it. We can transport goods long distances, giving us access to things no dreamed of 100 years ago. We can communicate instantly across the globe. These are all incredible achievements.

The world is a much better place to be sure. Capitalism has dramatically dropped poverty world-wide. It's great.

>What is the case is that inequality may not go away, but if one's own standard of living is increasing with relatively little effort, then that's the main thing.

Inequality starts before high school but is established at high school. Not everyone is equal, there are kids who are barely passing and there are kids who put the work in and earn top marks. This difference in personality will produce a different outcome.

The barely passing person who ends up in a mcjob earning minimum wage should not get the same benefits from society as the top marks kid who becomes a neuroscientist.

The neuroscientist should be driving his Tesla plaid edition while the mcjob is driving the 10 year old beater.

Inequality is not going away until some seismic shift in scarcity occurs; but even after we eliminate scarcity. There will still be inequality in different ways.