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Re:Web Development for Beginners – A Curriculum by devnulll on Saturday May 07, 2022 @10:34PM (#31300712)
One of my kids - 10yrs old - has been wanting to learn basic HTML and "programming". We've been going through the W3C with no trouble, and he's learning at an amazing rate.

This tutorial is way beyond anything he could approach. For example "Pedagogy" - I don't know what that means, and neither does he. Another example, from the beginning "In this section of the curriculum, you will be introduced to non project-based concepts important to becoming a professional developer."

I suspect most of this is translation issues, but given the audience (kids, newbies), this language is super intimidating.

Re:Web Development for Beginners – A Curriculum by MrJohz on Sunday May 08, 2022 @02:40AM (#31301875)
I don't think it's a translation issue, rather I get the impression that this has been written by educationalists for educationalists. So the pedagogical section is written using the basic technical language for that field, because the assumption is that the main target audience will be familiar with those terms.

It's a bit like how I might prepare a document for colleagues and a non-technical product owner, and I need to overall contents to be clear enough (and non-technical enough) for the PO to understand, but I also want to put technical details in for my colleagues who understand jargon like "load testing" or whatever else. I don't need to simplify the section on load testing and remove that sort of jargon, because in principle it's not necessary for the PO to precisely understand those details.

So I don't think it's a translation issue, but rather it's not designed to be directly a tutorial for getting started with programming, but rather a tool for teachers to teach lessons on getting started with programming.

Re:Web Development for Beginners – A Curriculum by jlooper on Saturday May 07, 2022 @10:36PM (#31300722)
It's not really geared towards 10 year olds, although we had a 9 year old contributor, actually! I'd recommend MakeCode for that age group
Re:Web Development for Beginners – A Curriculum by onion2k on Sunday May 08, 2022 @02:42AM (#31301883)
Our project-based pedagogy allows you to learn while building, a proven way for new skills to 'stick'.

The annoying thing about this sentence is that "pedagogy" could be replaced with "approach" or "method" and no meaning would be lost.

Re:Web Development for Beginners – A Curriculum by AlchemistCamp on Saturday May 07, 2022 @10:38PM (#31300729)
> "Pedagogy" - I don't know what that means

It means “teaching methods”.

Re:Web Development for Beginners – A Curriculum by devnulll on Saturday May 07, 2022 @11:14PM (#31300929)
The meta-point is that the usage of complex words is off-putting to those trying to learn something for the first time. There's always an element of "I don't know what this is, so I can skip it" but better to keep topics simple and approachable.
Re:Web Development for Beginners – A Curriculum by mejutoco on Sunday May 08, 2022 @08:59AM (#31303608)
This is what dictionaries are for, seriously. Instead of bending backwards to serve some supposedly alienated learners, we can look the word up. When I learn something for the first time I try to be humble and put in some effort. English is not my first language, but if we start avoiding "complex" words soon we will be communicating in grunts.
Re:Web Development for Beginners – A Curriculum by bigDinosaur on Sunday May 08, 2022 @12:23AM (#31301275)
What is a 'complex word'? I'm serious. If you google 'pedagogy definition' you get an easy to understand definition. If you're not willing to google things, you aren't ready to be a web developer.

Method names alone will drop you way out of the simple english, top 1k words simplification paradigm.

Re:Web Development for Beginners – A Curriculum by HWR_14 on Sunday May 08, 2022 @02:50AM (#31301899)
> usage of complex words is off-putting to those trying to learn something for the first time.

I prefer when I'm learning something new if it treats me like an intelligent person who is ignorant of that topic. So, yes, if you want to teach me something be gentle in the language from that subject. But please assume I do know some things.

Re:Web Development for Beginners – A Curriculum by tshaddox on Sunday May 08, 2022 @01:57AM (#31301709)
The linked document seems pretty clearly addressed to both teachers and students, which might not be a great decision. If they had an entry point dedicated only to students they could probably leave out all the places where they mention pedagogy. That said, I think it’s a bit of a stretch to criticize “pedagogy” as being a complicated term. It’s okay to occasionally need to look up something in a dictionary, especially in cases like this where it’s an incredibly precise and standard word for the concept it’s referring to. You could also find and replace all mentions of “biology” with “the study of life,” but I think using these terms are fine even if a very small portion of readers need to look it up once in the dictionary.
Re:Web Development for Beginners – A Curriculum by AlchemistCamp on Sunday May 08, 2022 @12:54AM (#31301422)
My meta point is, "Don't give up. Everything is learnable!"

My first real tech job was in a country and office where the working language was one I didn't speak while growing up. If I came across words at work I needed and didn't know, I looked them up or asked for clarification and learned them.

Re:Web Development for Beginners – A Curriculum by 4WIW on Sunday May 08, 2022 @12:57AM (#31301438)
I think this is a fair point. What about readability score of the course?

For better accuracy, maybe one needs to take out special terms first.

Re:Web Development for Beginners – A Curriculum by 0des on Saturday May 07, 2022 @11:21PM (#31300963)
we love our stupid fucking acronyms and pompous terms though, they are right.
Re:Web Development for Beginners – A Curriculum by jholman on Saturday May 07, 2022 @10:40PM (#31300740)
What W3C resources have you been using?
Re:Web Development for Beginners – A Curriculum by devnulll on Saturday May 07, 2022 @11:12PM (#31300917)
We've been using this one: https://www.w3schools.com/html/ He's had no trouble at all following along and using their tooling. I've been mostly hands-off.

I'm about to graduate him from "do it in just the browser" to using GitHub pages. That way he can have an HTML site that's "his" and start putting the pieces together.

Re:Web Development for Beginners – A Curriculum by csnover on Sunday May 08, 2022 @12:50AM (#31301398)
Just so you know, W3C is the main standards body for the web; w3schools is an unaffiliated privately-run web site with an intentionally confusing name. A much better general web resource—certainly for any intermediate-or-above learning, but probably also for beginners—is MDN[0].

[0] https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Learn

Re:Web Development for Beginners – A Curriculum by solarengineer on Sunday May 08, 2022 @12:04AM (#31301189)
You may also want to consider a Droplet for his next website. He will learn about the plumbing.

That way, when ever he is filled with self-doubt and needs reaffirmation, he would be able to put things together from the ground up and regain confidence.

Re:Web Development for Beginners – A Curriculum by andi999 on Sunday May 08, 2022 @02:21AM (#31301797)
What is a Droplet?

Edit: seriously. Non native speaker here, I have never heard the term. Googling shows: https://www.digitalocean.com/products/droplets

So a VM from this vendor is meant? Why?

Re:Web Development for Beginners – A Curriculum by solarengineer on Sunday May 08, 2022 @03:46AM (#31302084)
VPS hosting at Digital Ocean, available for USD 5 per month