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Re:The Google incentive mismatch: Problems with promotion-or... by cmrdporcupine on Wednesday May 04, 2022 @09:35PM (#31268306)
Your last sentence sums it all up for me. Having come into Google through acquisition (and product then killed off) maybe biased me, but still. That's how I see it.

I worked at Google for 10 years and didn't have more than a few minutes of job satisfaction and jumped from team to team hoping to eventually find a place where I could fit in and maybe get promotion. But I never went for promotion ever. The whole process looked meant to demoralize. I was clearly not a "culture fit" -- as they call it -- but somehow I soldiered on and nobody cared.

Until eventually, after 10 years of L4, it became clear me I had wasted 10 years of potential career progression because the money was (at least) twice as good as what I would have gotten in a smaller local company where I would have more impact and creative input. The rest of the industry was off doing other stuff, and my friends moving into lead and management jobs, while I putzed around moving protobufs (with just the right comments, indentation and stylistic flourishes) around Google's walled garden. Any interesting work was snatched up by others faster than you could get it.

Promotion level at Google is only loosely corelated with programming or engineering talent. It's a measure of political skill and motivation, and your ability or desire to thrive in a large organization.

Don't get me wrong, the money was excellent and my priority was feeding my family. But it wasn't "retire early" money, not without a lot of severe financial discipline and restraint anyways.

Google got lucky 15 years ago and managed to turn on an absolutely massive firehose of money in ads. Now Google hoovers up as much talent as they can in hopes that they'll strike it lucky and turn on a second or third revenue faucet. But spoiler alert: they never will. So they have to settle for attempting to starve potential competition of talent.

Re:The Google incentive mismatch: Problems with promotion-or... by rnk on Thursday May 05, 2022 @11:56AM (#31275001)
This experience fits mine at Google too. If I had only pushed to start at level 6 my life would have been different. Instead I was level 5. My group was full of people at level 5 who wanted to be level 6. No one ever got promoted. I eventually left Google and have been principal and architect at other companies, like I was before Google. G did pay a lot.
Re:The Google incentive mismatch: Problems with promotion-or... by digisign on Wednesday May 04, 2022 @10:25PM (#31268629)
Occasionally I've landed a boring job with good pay. Yes, I'd keep an eye out, but while waiting I worked on floss projects. Not sure if that would've worked for you.
Re:The Google incentive mismatch: Problems with promotion-or... by cmrdporcupine on Wednesday May 04, 2022 @10:38PM (#31268719)
The problem with this approach is the FLOSS stuff being more interesting ends up impacting the success of $work, or the $work distracts you enough that you can never focus long enough on the FLOSS. Plus the guilt.

Plus, at Google in particular, you have to make them aware of your OSS work and go through the motions of getting the licensing set up so either they own it or you get permission.

Re:The Google incentive mismatch: Problems with promotion-or... by hansvm on Wednesday May 04, 2022 @10:58PM (#31268859)
Even if you "get permission" that's only for copyright. They still claim ownership of other IP (patents, trademarks, trade secrets), ... on _everything_ in your private life. I doubt it gets enforced often, but the employment contracts are draconian.
Re:The Google incentive mismatch: Problems with promotion-or... by digisign on Friday May 06, 2022 @10:12PM (#31291591)
I'd say work on an existing project they can't wrestle control over. I am not your lawyer however.
Re:The Google incentive mismatch: Problems with promotion-or... by blindmute on Saturday May 07, 2022 @04:54PM (#31298484)
How is 10 years of L4 ($270k now) not retire early money? That's double what the median earner will earn in their entire 40 years of work.
Re:The Google incentive mismatch: Problems with promotion-or... by heddhunter on Saturday May 14, 2022 @09:19PM (#31384380)
lifestyle creep. living in the bay area, kid or two in private school, driving a tesla... $270k doesn't go that far.
Re:The Google incentive mismatch: Problems with promotion-or... by blindmute on Sunday May 15, 2022 @01:34PM (#31389235)
Yeah, I guess. I try to avoid that as much as I can, such that my rent is currently around 10% of net pay, but I constantly feel an urge to upgrade things (and do, eventually). But it certainly is retire early money if you can fight that urge even moderately. I make less than that and am on pace to retire at 35 with a comfortable middle class lifestyle.
Re:The Google incentive mismatch: Problems with promotion-or... by dragonwriter on Saturday May 14, 2022 @09:21PM (#31384397)
“living in the Bay Area, kid or two in private school, driving a Tesla“ is, itself, very far.