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Re:CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans follow... by mullingitover on Tuesday May 03, 2022 @07:27PM (#31254923)
> The CDC wants a say in how people live their lives and thinks they know better than individuals about risk tolerance and decisions.

Their charter is disease control. How you 'live your life' is orthogonal to that mission - they're responsible for stopping you from infecting other people with communicable diseases. That is also your own responsibility, and just because responsibilities aren't always things you want to do doesn't mean they're oppression.

Re:CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans follow... by jatone on Tuesday May 03, 2022 @07:59PM (#31255213)
> How you 'live your life' is orthogonal to that mission

orthogonal does not mean what you think it means given your usage. orthogonal means its entirely unrelated. but the fact is disease control and being able to make personal choices w/ respect to living your life can be in direct conflict means its not orthogonal.

apologies for this correction orthogonal is just one of my favorite words. =)

Re:CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans follow... by Eldt on Tuesday May 03, 2022 @08:22PM (#31255386)
It was used correctly, you've just mistaken the point made about the CDC and how they view their mission
Re:CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans follow... by jatone on Tuesday May 03, 2022 @10:56PM (#31256239)
no, its not used correctly. If i've misunderstood the point being communicated its because the original comment isn't using words correctly. ;)
Re:CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans follow... by leereeves on Tuesday May 03, 2022 @08:42PM (#31255477)
It's definitely not orthogonal to how you live your life; their very purpose is to limit how you live your life in order to prevent/reduce behaviors that spread disease. For example, they issue quarantine orders.[1]

People understand that is their mission. Some find it scary.

Everyone has a different threshold at which they start to object to the CDC overriding people's freedom in the pursuit of disease control, but everyone will object at some point. For example, would you accept a Shanghai-style lockdown?

1: https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/pdf/Public-Health-Order_Gener...

Re:CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans follow... by mullingitover on Tuesday May 03, 2022 @09:09PM (#31255642)
> their very purpose is to limit how you live your life

Their purpose is to increase the overall duration of healthy life we have, both individually and in aggregate. Limiting how you live your life is, again, orthogonal to that.

For example, how is their campaign to control mosquitos and eradicate malaria in the US limiting how you live your life?

Re:CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans follow... by jimmydorry on Tuesday May 03, 2022 @09:38PM (#31255837)
I'm going to assume that you are discussing in good faith, as per the HackerNews commenting guidelines, and did not deliberately pick a specific CDC campaign as a strawman.

The CDC's campaign to control mosquitos and eradicate malaria in the US probably does not limit how people are living their lives, but ordering an immediate nationwide halt on evictions of any renter for nonpayment of rent would be an example of applying limitations on people.

Re:CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans follow... by Brybry on Tuesday May 03, 2022 @10:08PM (#31255988)
To be fair, the national eviction moratorium was ruled illegal/not a power that the CDC has.

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/20pdf/21a23_ap6c.pdf

Re:CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans follow... by jtbayly on Tuesday May 03, 2022 @11:16PM (#31256363)
Precisely. The group that is willing to illegally order you to do things they have no right to order is also tracking you. But no biggie.
Re:CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans follow... by drekk on Wednesday May 04, 2022 @02:17AM (#31257289)
Say the thing they ordered. They didn't allow evicting millions of Americans during winter in a global pandemic. They're also tracking people to make sure lockdown guidelines were followed. Of course Americans could not follow a guideline to save their lives, and now over a million preventably dead Americans get to be summarily forgotten because the real victim was your ability to go to a bar or concert when hospitals were renting refrigerated trucks to hold bodies.

But no biggie.

Re:CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans follow... by mullingitover on Wednesday May 04, 2022 @01:24AM (#31257032)
I find it pretty encouraging that of all the possible examples of the CDC using its statutory authority you could think of, the example that comes to mind is that they took away a person's freedom to be evicted.
Re:CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans follow... by conradev on Tuesday May 03, 2022 @10:41PM (#31256159)
The goal of public health is to increase overall health, yes, but that goal can easily conflict with individual freedoms. For example, smoking bans:

> Supporters argue by presenting evidence that smoking is one of the major killers, and that therefore governments have a duty to reduce the death rate, both through limiting passive (second-hand) smoking and by providing fewer opportunities for people to smoke. Opponents say that this undermines individual freedom and personal responsibility, and worry that the state may be encouraged to remove more and more choice in the name of better population health overall.

The main thing that public health agencies do is promote healthy behaviors, like, for example, washing your hands. You could say that their primary goal is convincing you to “live your life” in a healthy way.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_health

Re:CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans follow... by tragictrash on Tuesday May 03, 2022 @08:47PM (#31255511)
It feels like your living in some strange alternate reality. What are you talking about? How is the CDC 'overriding freedom'?

They collect data and make recommendations.

The rest of the world is out here waiting for you, please wake up. We need everyone to make this work.

Re:CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans follow... by peyton on Tuesday May 03, 2022 @09:04PM (#31255619)
The CDC also enacts regulations under Section 361. Some of them, like the rent/eviction freeze, arguably encroached upon “freedom.”
Re:CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans follow... by leereeves on Tuesday May 03, 2022 @08:48PM (#31255518)
> What are you talking about?

The CDC's mission is fundamentally the same as the mission of the Chinese disease control agency. The difference is how that mission is balanced against people's freedom to live their lives.

Please don't misunderstand; that doesn't mean that I oppose everything they do. Everything they do limits freedom, but sometimes that is necessary.

Re:CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans follow... by nradov on Tuesday May 03, 2022 @08:56PM (#31255564)
Which specific limits on freedom are necessary? What are the criteria for determining necessity?
Re:CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans follow... by ethbr0 on Tuesday May 03, 2022 @09:24PM (#31255742)
Those which reduce mortality rate below a desired threshold.

It's a scientific question as to whether a specific limit on freedom (of movement, of contact, etc.) is effective.

But it's a general approximation that greater freedoms mean higher mortality rates during lethal pandemics. And vice versus.

What level of mortality we're prepared to accept, and what level of limitations on freedom, is a political question in a democracy.

Re:CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans follow... by leereeves on Tuesday May 03, 2022 @09:04PM (#31255618)
> Which specific limits on freedom are necessary?

That's the eternal question. Not just for disease control, but for everything.

> What are the criteria for determining necessity?

In a democracy, ultimately: elections.

Re:CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans follow... by bally0241 on Wednesday May 04, 2022 @12:26AM (#31256755)
Not only are they completely unnecessary, but more importantly many of your so-called "limits on freedom" are blatantly unconstitutional and illegal.
[dead]
Re:CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans follow... by leereeves on Tuesday May 03, 2022 @08:57PM (#31255571)
> THEY MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS

Ahh, I see where the confusion is. They actually have authority to issue legally binding orders.

"To help prevent the spread of COVID-19 and help our country cope during the pandemic, CDC has occasionally issued legally binding orders and regulations."

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cdcresponse/laws-r...

Not all such orders are listed on that page. For example, "CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky today signed an order determining the evictions of tenants for failure to make rent or housing payments could be detrimental to public health control measures".

https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0803-cdc-eviction-o...

Re:CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans follow... by Izkata on Tuesday May 03, 2022 @09:42PM (#31255856)
That's their name, not their scope. Here's an example of what else they do:

https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/about/index.html

> In 1979, the U.S. Surgeon General identified violent behavior as a key public health priority. In 1980, CDC began studying patterns of violence. This effort grew into a national program to reduce the death and disability associated with injuries outside the workplace. In 1992, CDC established the National Center for Injury Prevention and Control (NCIPC) as the lead federal organization for violence prevention. The Division of Violence Prevention (DVP) is one of three divisions within NCIPC. DVP is focused on preventing violence and its consequences so that all people, families, and communities are safe, healthy, and free from violence.

Re:CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans follow... by anamax on Tuesday May 03, 2022 @10:40PM (#31256145)
Ah yes, the CDC.

They've been saying "Spanish Flu - give us money" for years and we find out that they didn't bother to research how any of the flus are transmitted.

It's not like flus haven't been killing 35-75k Americans every year for as long as anyone has counted.

Speaking of the Spanish Flu, Fauci's PhD was on how improvised masks made it worse...

Also, one of the big Spanish Flu outbreaks was "credited" to a parade, aka "a bunch of people walking down the street together." What did the CDC say about such events? (Hint: it praised them if they were BLM.)

Re:CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans follow... by seoaeu on Wednesday May 04, 2022 @12:20AM (#31256725)
Almost like the flu and Covid are different diseases that don’t have identical patterns of transmission
Re:CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans follow... by anamax on Thursday May 05, 2022 @11:07AM (#31274329)
Coronaviruses ARE one of the flu types.

Note that Covid-19 is SARS2 - SARS1 was 10 years ago.

Re:CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans follow... by seoaeu on Thursday May 05, 2022 @10:57PM (#31280790)
> Coronaviruses ARE one of the flu types.

No, influenza is not a coronavirus.

> Note that Covid-19 is SARS2 - SARS1 was 10 years ago.

I don't know what this has to do with my comment, but if we're going to be pedantic, Covid-19 is the disease caused by the SARS‑CoV‑2 virus.

Re:CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans follow... by anamax on Friday May 06, 2022 @03:24PM (#31288807)
The 35-75k deaths/year isn't just influenzas.

Do you really want to argue that the public health community was saying "hey, we're only interested in influenza" when they used various pandemics to argue for funding for the last 80+ years? (Influenza wasn't even distinguished until the mid 30s.)

Yes, Covid-19 is SARS2. My point is that SARS1 was 10 years ago, which is plenty of time for the public health community to do relevant research and yet ....

Do you want to bet that they didn't fundraise off of SARS1 specifically? And yet...

Re:CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans follow... by seoaeu on Friday May 06, 2022 @09:03PM (#31291234)
> 10 years ago, which is plenty of time for the public health community to do relevant research

Ok, that's enough for me. You're clearly just trolling

Re:CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans follow... by anamax on Saturday May 07, 2022 @12:14AM (#31292108)
10 years isn't enough time to research coronavirus transmission? (SARS1 wasn't the first, but ....)

How long then?

Re:CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans follow... by cde-v on Tuesday May 03, 2022 @11:16PM (#31256365)
Gish galloping at its finest
Re:CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans follow... by colordrops on Tuesday May 03, 2022 @11:25PM (#31256408)
Ignoring the statements of the comment and resorting to implicit ad hominem at its best.

If you consider this the epitomy of gish galloping then you haven't been near conspiracy forums with pages and pages of garbage links.

Re:CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans follow... by anamax on Friday May 06, 2022 @03:26PM (#31288824)
Which statement do you disagree with?
Re:CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans follow... by darkhorse222 on Tuesday May 03, 2022 @11:12PM (#31256338)
Careful, you're tipping your hand.
Re:CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans follow... by colordrops on Tuesday May 03, 2022 @11:18PM (#31256375)
So what? They may be coming from a politicized angle, and probably only passing facts that support their case, but at least they are facts, and not misinformation, like graphene in vaccines or whatever. Everyone is coming from some bias and angle, so don't judge on that. Judge on the veracity of the statements. Do you have anything to say about the actual statements?

Most everything that is wrong with modern discourse is due to ad hominem and labeling rather than discussion of facts.

Re:CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans follow... by patrick451 on Tuesday May 03, 2022 @08:59PM (#31255582)
This is exactly why the CDC should not exit. Their mission is at loggerheads with liberty.
Re:CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans follow... by ethbr0 on Tuesday May 03, 2022 @09:26PM (#31255761)
So any organization which impinges on liberty shouldn't exist? The IRS, fire departments, police departments?
Re:CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans follow... by systemvoltage on Tuesday May 03, 2022 @10:04PM (#31255966)
The problem is that the CDC has squandered trust.

If my local fire department behaves in a way that manifests immense mistrust in the neighborhood, sure as hell I wouldn't want them to exist.

Fortunately, around the country, fire department people are the nicest, kindest, inspiring leaders.

Re:CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans follow... by armada651 on Tuesday May 03, 2022 @10:40PM (#31256151)
If your local fire department made masks mandates part of the fire safety code they'd be just as hated in that neighborhood. No matter how nice, kind and inspiring the people who work there are.
Re:CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans follow... by drekk on Wednesday May 04, 2022 @02:19AM (#31257301)
Kind of helps when your job is fighting fires and not preventing people from infecting their loved ones in the name of personal freedom.
Re:CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans follow... by GauntletWizard on Tuesday May 03, 2022 @10:35PM (#31256125)
Re:CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans follow... by bally0241 on Wednesday May 04, 2022 @12:28AM (#31256769)
IRS? Yes. I'm OK with abolishing the others too. Volunteer (only) fire departments can stay.