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Re:Airbnb’s design to live and work anywhere by ajkjk on Thursday April 28, 2022 @11:47PM (#31201179)
Obligatory reminder that this stance isn't universal and some people do like open floor plans (such as myself).
Re:Airbnb’s design to live and work anywhere by dinvlad on Thursday April 28, 2022 @11:52PM (#31201203)
For sure - although it's always interesting to hear what people like or not about it, and how they work around issues like distractions/attention scatter and the pure "don't watch over my shoulder when I need to check HN". Maybe it all depends on personal sensitivity to such things and the ability to focus/zone in to the music, but that still feels like a coping mechanism rather than something that naturally comes to most (and I'm saying that despite being able to hyper-focus myself, after many years in an open environment).
Re:Airbnb’s design to live and work anywhere by ajkjk on Friday April 29, 2022 @10:29AM (#31205623)
I think it depends a lot on your emotional approach to work. For me, I'm a decently good engineer, but at my heart I'm quite extroverted and the thing I like most about working is being around smart people and making friends and stuff. The engineering itself is not the core of my existence, it's getting to live the role of the engineer. I guess I also don't mind putting headphones on and focusing, and I really like getting distracted out of that because, well, I like human interaction and helping people and stuff.
Re:Airbnb’s design to live and work anywhere by dinvlad on Friday April 29, 2022 @05:20PM (#31210700)
That's a good way to put it, thanks for sharing! Agreed that it may not be the same for extroverts vs introverts. I think it doesn't have to be "either-or" - both open-office and private-office plans need to co-exist, the trouble starts when everyone is bound to the same requirements.
Re:Airbnb’s design to live and work anywhere by Terretta on Saturday April 30, 2022 @07:53AM (#31215307)
TL;DR: Try a “pair programming” company.

“don’t mind focusing [but] really like getting distracted out of that … interaction … helping … and stuff”

This sounds annoying to at least 50% of your peers, and destructive to focus for almost everyone.

Engineering (as opposed to, say, “coding” that just transcribes requirements into code) usually requires building systems in one’s mind then factoring them into well-architected structure and describing that literately in code. This is not a social hang-out (“hey, wassup, can I help w anything?”) activity.

Certainly system conception and architecture can happen great at a whiteboard, but the steps after that tend to go better focused, alternating with iterative collaborative feedback syncs that don’t break concentration for anyone in the system-to-literate-artifact time consuming phase.

Think 3 to 4 hour cycles: 2 to 3 hrs uninterrupted focus, 30 mins break, 30 mins collab for ideation and review, back into focus. Shorten either the morning or afternoon focus cycle depending when you focus most productively, allocate the extra to lunch/learn/whatever. 2x3hrs+1hr lunch = 30 hr work, 5 hrs lunch, per week. Beyond that you probably don’t engineer productively and should enjoy non workplace environments to recharge / defrag.

Since focus time is the phase with most time, it means at any given moment most people need library quiet, and the reflective syncs should be elsewhere.

- Privacy by default with collab spaces allows focus and interaction, without interaction annoying or destructive to anyone. (It’s by-and-large only annoying to (a) profit-over-productivity accountants who think it’s expensive, (b) micro-managers who adore management by walking around, aka getting paid executive pay to chit chat everyone’s focus away, and (c) people who haven’t yet learned how to deep focus consistently.)

- Collab by default without (or with only limited) private focus space prevents this beyond whatever threshold of private space availability. That said, allowing people to pick their own work-start times helps distribute focus and collab usage. The less private space, the more flexible working hours and location must be.

Effectively zero people can translate systems to code while “human-interacting and helping people and such” the way you describe, advocating for that as default is literally counter productivity.

There’s a solution though: devs craving continuous interaction can seek out a company (correctly) believing in “XP” aka eXtreme Programming or paired programming. In this model, the default private spaces have two engineers who program symbiotically. Research suggests 1+1 = 2.5 or 3 or more. For some problems, 10x.

Not only co-thinkers thrive in XP. Standard deviations of engineers need fewer iterations till correctness, meaning, produce higher quality faster. It’s been shown this helps introverted thinkers too, even if they only pair with a rubber duck to explain their thinking aloud to!

Re:Airbnb’s design to live and work anywhere by psyclobe on Friday April 29, 2022 @12:08AM (#31201321)
Thats called the break room
Re:Airbnb’s design to live and work anywhere by ajkjk on Friday April 29, 2022 @10:27AM (#31205593)
It is really strange to me that anti-open-office people (and in general anti-office people) often don't understand (or don't believe?) that other people just have radically different preferences to them.
Re:Airbnb’s design to live and work anywhere by closeparen on Friday April 29, 2022 @11:03AM (#31206056)
A “closed” office design includes private inner sanctums, small group common areas, and large group common areas. Think academia: my grad student friends have shared or sometimes private offices in little clusters of 5 that surround a small conference room or lounge. Then down the hall is the big department lounge. A much greater range of preferences are satisfiable with this layout. The same people are also allowed to have varying preferences depending on the time of day or phase of project, and to wander with their laptops.
Re:Airbnb’s design to live and work anywhere by ajkjk on Friday April 29, 2022 @01:09PM (#31207861)
I'm not arguing that offices shouldn't have closed spaces, I'm arguing that there exist people who like open offices, despite the weird remarks in this thread from people who think that, like, only managers would.
Re:Airbnb’s design to live and work anywhere by missedthecue on Friday April 29, 2022 @12:11AM (#31201343)
I do too. I think a lot of people who spend work hours browsing the web don't like them.
Re:Airbnb’s design to live and work anywhere by carlivar on Friday April 29, 2022 @01:19AM (#31201706)
Found the management.
Re:Airbnb’s design to live and work anywhere by ajkjk on Friday April 29, 2022 @10:26AM (#31205569)
Cynical comment, don't you think? I like open offices and I'm a dev. It's not that inconceivable that people have different preferences, right?
Re:Airbnb’s design to live and work anywhere by toomanyrichies on Friday April 29, 2022 @03:19PM (#31209545)
The person to whom you're responding probably made that comment because of GP's statement "I think a lot of people who spend work hours browsing the web don't like them." Which in itself is pretty cynical.

As a fellow dev, I dislike open office plans, but not because I spend my day browsing the web. I dislike them because I'm rather noise-sensitive, and it's hard for me to tune out the sound of ping-pong balls being batted back and forth. I can't just put on headphones, because my team pair-programs extensively. With WFH, I can pair program and not deal with that or the myriad of other aural distractions.

That said, I appreciate your comments on this post and yes, I wholeheartedly agree that the preferences of folks who prefer WFO are just as valid as those of us who prefer WHF. Plenty of room for both in the world. :-)

And with that, I'm off to play today's Wordle while half-listening to a Zoom meeting.

Re:Airbnb’s design to live and work anywhere by dinvlad on Friday April 29, 2022 @12:14AM (#31201362)
Who said that browsing HN or other tech sources on-your-own is less productive than regular "work"? :P