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Re:Rocket Mortgage to trim 8% of workforce as home-loan mark... by darrenf on Thursday April 28, 2022 @07:46AM (#31191369)
I spent most of my 20s thinking, man, fuck home ownership, I'm gonna rent forever (to my knowledge, no-one in my family had ever owned; I grew up in charity housing and inherited nothing at all). Then I got booted out of a place because the landlord wanted to sell. They offered it to me first, but I had no savings for a deposit. The same story played out amongst my friends, repeatedly, and it totally changed my mind. It wasn't rent increases that were worrisome or painful, it was being forced to move. I wanted to find somewhere I liked and bloody stay there, a literal impossibility all the while I rented. But if I could get a deposit together† then ownership would do it - plus it was revelatory to me that my mortgage payments would be less than the rents I'd been paying AND I could have them fixed for 10 whole years.

I didn't buy because it was a step onto the property ladder. I bought because it was less of a gamble than renting. I ended up staying in my first house for 17 years, whereas my record under a single landlord was 3.

> Maybe in 10 years I want a year off? What then? Maybe I want to change careers to something less intellectually demanding. Maybe I want to spend 50 hours a week with my kids. None of those are feasible if I need the salary.

During those 17 years I took at least two pay cuts, and multiple 2-6 month breaks between jobs, all affordable because I owned rather than rented. Lower outgoings made it possible to save more, plus my mortgage provider offers payment holidays. No landlord ever did!

> I opt for quality of life, which I don't achieve by giving it all to some property-owning entity who sells it to me at 3 times the price they paid a couple decades ago.

I mean, isn't "paying rent to a private landlord" doing just that? Except "sells it to me" is actually "allows me to live there, until they decide not to" and all the money you spent is gone.

† I lucked out with a lump sum/windfall through my employer; I'm making no claims that getting a deposit is easy/attainable

Re:Rocket Mortgage to trim 8% of workforce as home-loan mark... by jjav on Thursday April 28, 2022 @11:56AM (#31194120)
> and multiple 2-6 month breaks between jobs, all affordable because I owned rather than rented

Indeed! I've taken a long break from working to be with my child, which I could afford to do only because I'd bought a home years earlier. If I'd been renting with ever-increasing rents I never could have done that.

Re:Rocket Mortgage to trim 8% of workforce as home-loan mark... by throw8383833jj on Thursday April 28, 2022 @12:43PM (#31194783)
house ownership is just a legal construct. you don't really own the house, even when it's paid off. even if you own, and pay off the entire house, you'll still have to pay "rent" in the form of property taxes, an unfortunate reality.
Re:Rocket Mortgage to trim 8% of workforce as home-loan mark... by olyjohn on Thursday April 28, 2022 @01:21PM (#31195286)
In some places that can be a lot of money. Like New York, I hear property taxes are close to half your mortgage. In places like Washington, property taxes amount to a few thousand dollars a year on a modest house. I'll pay that over $2000/mo in rent any time.
Re:Rocket Mortgage to trim 8% of workforce as home-loan mark... by mrep on Friday April 29, 2022 @09:54AM (#31205107)
About a third of my mortgage payment here in chicago is for escrow.
Re:Rocket Mortgage to trim 8% of workforce as home-loan mark... by ClumsyPilot on Thursday April 28, 2022 @02:01PM (#31195910)
> house ownership is just a legal construct

Stange argument, all rights are legal contructs - how do I know my employer will pay me for work done, or my neighbour won't rob be in my sleep and slit my neck?

If we don't trust legal constructs, we can't have a civilisation.

Re:Rocket Mortgage to trim 8% of workforce as home-loan mark... by throw8383833jj on Thursday April 28, 2022 @03:28PM (#31197105)
You can trust them, that's not the point. the point is, you can keep your pen or your calculator without having to pay rent on them. You can't keep your land/house unless you pay rent on it to the govt. Considering that all humans require shelter to continue living (surprising: the homeless in the US die 30 yrs younger than the average), a case can be made that property taxes for a minimum amount of land necessary to live are unreasonable. otherwise it's a tax on life
Re:Rocket Mortgage to trim 8% of workforce as home-loan mark... by ak217 on Thursday April 28, 2022 @05:37PM (#31198518)
That case doesn't work because the property taxes mostly fund essential local services that are also necessary to live and have a functioning society - there are many locales in the US where the property taxes are zero but there are no improvements or people around you.
Re:Rocket Mortgage to trim 8% of workforce as home-loan mark... by darrenf on Thursday April 28, 2022 @01:17PM (#31195221)
I'm in the UK. AFAIK we don't have any ongoing property taxes to pay, at least not if I have bought the freehold. Leaseholders may have to pay ground rent, but that's often a peppercorn and anything above that is being legislated into oblivion this year[0].

Regardless, ownership is a useful legal construct the benefits of which seem to outweigh those of being a tenant.

[0] https://landlordknowledge.co.uk/ground-rents-banned-under-ne...

Re:Rocket Mortgage to trim 8% of workforce as home-loan mark... by throwaheyy on Thursday April 28, 2022 @03:33PM (#31197175)
Do you pay council rates? That’s what are called property taxes in the USA.
Re:Rocket Mortgage to trim 8% of workforce as home-loan mark... by darrenf on Thursday April 28, 2022 @04:09PM (#31197591)
Ah yes, there’s council tax - but tenants pay that too, so it’s not a difference between the scenarios. Also I wouldn’t want or expect to stop contributing to local services just because I don’t have a mortgage!
Re:Rocket Mortgage to trim 8% of workforce as home-loan mark... by throwaheyy on Thursday April 28, 2022 @05:55PM (#31198679)
Tenants in the USA do not pay it directly but do so effectively by proxy, because they pay rent to the landlord and the landlord pays property taxes to local government.

Property taxes in the USA go towards local government services like garbage collection and street maintenance, just like council rates. So I believe property tax and council rates are still analogous.