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Re:Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser... by donatj on Wednesday April 27, 2022 @09:01AM (#31179315)
I would personally rather be involved in the decision making process related to my very existence rather than just told what to do.
Re:Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser... by warent on Wednesday April 27, 2022 @09:15AM (#31179449)
But why?

Imagine your grandmother who knows nothing about computers or tech asking you about GPUs and which programming language is best because she's curious about buying Bitcoin vs investing in Ethereum.

For someone who can't tell the difference between a screen saver and a computer virus, the discussion is meaningless, and only the illusion of control exists

Re:Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser... by wheybags on Wednesday April 27, 2022 @09:26AM (#31179558)
I had a sugery for a common issue performed, as it happens, by the ex head of some surgeons union type organisation in my country (Ireland). The established technique has an uncommon but not so uncommon tendency to have issues where you just dont heal properly. I was unlucky and I didn't heal. I spent a year being tended by various nurses and reviews etc etc and when I finally started to research it myself I found there was a new far better surgical method available, but the guy who did my surgery was old and hadn't kept up to date. I found a surgeon who specialised in the new method and I was fully healed and done forever in a couple of months.

They might be an expert, but it's your (literal) skin in the game.

Re:Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser... by donatj on Wednesday April 27, 2022 @09:26AM (#31179564)
This is such a silly metaphor I am going to ignore it and answer the initial question.

Why? Because the things I personally value in my life and health are not always aligned with the things doctors try to optimize for.

I’ve told the story here a number of times but my tonsils swelled up to the size of grapefruit a number of years ago. After 6 months of steroids and having them drained I wanted them removed. My doctor did not think it was necessary, even though I was living in misery. I ended up just going to a doctor about an hour away and had them out within the week.

Re:Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser... by warent on Wednesday April 27, 2022 @09:31AM (#31179611)
You're abandoning the context of the thread. The original comment you replied to was about how the US Healthcare system should be fixed so that you always know doctors are optimized for your needs
Re:Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser... by SamBam on Wednesday April 27, 2022 @09:21AM (#31179515)
And to extend your analogy, instead of the grandmother talking to a helpful expert, all the information they are given comes from BitCoin salesmen, and she's expected to "do her own research."
Re:Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser... by warent on Wednesday April 27, 2022 @09:22AM (#31179526)
Side effects may include losing all your money, but those side effects are like really really rare
Re:Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser... by badtake on Wednesday April 27, 2022 @10:52AM (#31180614)
Not everything is “fixable” in health and sometimes this means that there isn’t one “right” choice for treatment. Involving the patient in the decision making process is important because people have preferences for what is right for them and their life and the doctor can act as a well informed partner in care.

I have multiple sclerosis. There’s not a cure but there is highly effective medication. There’s also less effective medications. The highly effective stuff is various degrees of immunosuppressive or has a risk of fatal brain infection that is manageable with proper testing and monitoring. The less effective stuff can seem “safer” because it lacks these particular risks. A regular neurologist might not know very much at all and give outdated advice and treatment plans compared to some specialists and for this reason advocating for oneself is hugely important as long term outcomes can be greatly different based on the treatment choices. The fact is that you can’t just let “medicine happen to you” because the person that cares the most about your medical outcomes is you. Obviously this is an extreme example but it’s one of many.

Re:Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser... by bbarnett on Wednesday April 27, 2022 @09:24AM (#31179540)
"What's and adblocker" - my Grandma.

Well, you know a phone book? And, you know how if you want to phone someone, you tend to look up their number in a phone book?

"Yes"

Well, computers are the same. They only know numbers, they're computers after all, and DNS maps the names you see for websites, to numbers, so computers can find the website.

"Uh, OK"

The adblocker I am going to install, makes it impossible for the computer to see the numbers for advetisers. It can't find them in its phone book any more. So, no ads!

Now grandma understands how DNS works, and what some adblockers do.

Some things are not as technically complex as we think they are.

Re:Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser... by warent on Wednesday April 27, 2022 @09:27AM (#31179573)
Maps names of websites? I don't know what that means. Timmy showed me The Amazon and the egg cooker from there worked wonderfully so I don't want an ad blocker.
Re:Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser... by bbarnett on Wednesday April 27, 2022 @09:35AM (#31179687)
Granmda knew what it meant. She'd been looking up names in the phonebook here whole life, mapping them to numbers.

Been doing the same thing for lots of paper databases, like address books, and been using indexes in books too.

Not to mention, how the library indexed books in her day.

Zero confusion about DNS after I explained urls to her. None.

Re:Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser... by fullstop on Wednesday April 27, 2022 @09:11AM (#31179409)
I mean, I agree with this but also feel that pharmaceutical companies should not be advertising directly to the public.
Re:Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser... by teddyh on Wednesday April 27, 2022 @09:17AM (#31179467)
Note: Advertising prescription drugs to the public is only legal in the USA, and also New Zealand. Nowhere else.
Re:Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser... by Workaccount2 on Wednesday April 27, 2022 @09:53AM (#31179898)
I think everyone agrees, but it is a first amendment nightmare to try and regulate.
Re:Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser... by fullstop on Wednesday April 27, 2022 @10:01AM (#31180002)
We already prohibit advertising for cigarettes (on broadcast TV and print), so this doesn't seem like that much of a stretch.
Re:Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser... by Workaccount2 on Wednesday April 27, 2022 @10:11AM (#31180107)
Cigarettes have the "think of the children" special ability.
Re:Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser... by IneffablePigeon on Wednesday April 27, 2022 @09:16AM (#31179455)
I mean, I do see where you're coming from, and I have in the past second guessed some medical advice and asked if they'd considered a particular diagnosis I had a hunch on.

On the other hand, they're a professional and they've usually spent the majority of their life training to be good at what they're advising you about. I don't demand to be involved in the design of planes I fly on or bridges I cross, because frankly I'd do a worse job than even a pretty bad qualified engineer.

Re:Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser... by matsemann on Wednesday April 27, 2022 @09:11AM (#31179403)
I "feel" like I would like that as well. But if I every get really ill with something longterm, I'm also afraid I'd spend too much energy on all the decisions and research. Giving patients options also gives them doubts.
Re:Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser... by bittercynic on Wednesday April 27, 2022 @09:42AM (#31179782)
I think individual patients have very different preferences on this. I've taken pets to a few different vets, and some say things like "There are many possible reasons for these symptoms. Let's try XYZ and see how it goes." Others are more like "Your dog has X. We'll do Y and it should clear up."

My preference is for the one who I think is being honest with me about how certain they are about what's going on, and when a medical professional seems like they want to appear 100% certain all the time it makes me worry about their judgement.

I think many people have the opposite preference, which seems to me is asking for dishonesty. Seems like an ethically tricky area.