Americans are - in fact - responsible for a lot.

Like people fleeing the Northern Triangle are absolutely someone that US has a moral obligation to help.

Arguably helping people in Cuba, Venezuela or Taiwan - is less of a moral imperative. Because those issues aren't American responsibility anymore.

The US is still attacking Cuba and Venezuela.

Yes that is our burden as a democracy.

It always comes back to whataboutism with you people, doesn't it? As if the previous actions of western countries justifies the top down strategy of ethnic cleansing, the deliberate targeting of civilian infrastructure, the torture, rape, and murder of civilians that Russian government is pursuing RIGHT NOW and has pursued in every conflict it's been involved in. This is a deliberate strategy that no western nation uses, there is no comparison to be drawn, and trying to pretend otherwise is defending the indefensible.

> with you people...

Oh?

Its just that we would like for those with very little knowledge of their own governments war crimes to pipe down a little with the...

targeting of civilian infrastructure, the torture, rape, and murder of civilians that Russian government is pursuing RIGHT NOW and has pursued... Narrative.

It comes across as dishonest at best.

Who do you mean by western nations? Which western nation has been at war in the last 50 years? I have a premonition that whatever "western nation" you are talking about is probably not part of the ICC because they do not want to be charged with war crimes...just a wild guess.

So please save your feigned indignation.

Western whataboutism is a really underexplored phenomenon.

Why do they always do diminish struggle of people and nations outside of West?

It's like they're always saying "nah everybody hurts, you're not going through anything special, let's talk about us instead".

Yeah I've never seen whataboutism about whataboutism, you truly are plumbing new depths of war crime denial.

I do not see war crime denial in their post. More like war crime acknowledgement. I think that it is you who is undermining the struggles of people attacked by US interests.

Western countries don’t do these things directly (with some notable exceptions like Abu Ghraib). But they will arm, fund, and support proxies knowing they will commit atrocities. Is Saudi Arabia’s brutal US-funded war in Yemen any different morally from what Russia is doing in Ukraine? Is SA’s government any less despotic than Russia’s?

For me personally, this has nothing to do with whataboutism. I just want my country’s actions to reflect its stated principles. Partly because I don’t want my taxes supporting oppression and genocide, and partly because I want us to be seen as credible by the rest of the world when we condemn abuses by Russia, China, or any other country.

It's not whataboutism; it's "With what measure thou metest, it shall be measured unto thee again." It's the Golden Rule, a basic moral tenet.

Americans doing plenty of real things to keep their government in check. There is no excuse.

I mean... Not really.

The military is widely unquestionably supported in US. Public is not even remotely trying to keep the covert and intelligence agencies in check... Remember how ATF sold AK47 to Mexican cartels?

The issue is willful ignorance on behalf of many americans. To the point that most aren't even aware that US intelligence is spying on allied leaders(Merkel's phone was tapped by US)

Can you list some?

Can you list some by Russians?

As an answer to the question of why Americans are better than Russians, saying that neither Russians nor Americans are equally bad at restraining their country's aggression isn't good.

You could get closer to an answer by counting the corpses.

Ukraine, Chechnya, Syria. Add to that inhuman treatment of civilians, unhinged army, mass rapes as terror means, bombings, chemical attacks, kidnappings, tortures. Putin wins it easily and we in Russia know this well. And he just started.

Not having one dictator for 20 years, for starters?

We blamed the Germans for nazi Germany, didn’t we?

Not just blamed; they were also ruthlessly bombed. The impact was the opposite of what was expected: instead of revolting Germans were even more galvanized in supporting Hitler.

Bombing civilians to foster opposition to the national government was out of arrogant ignorance.

However - it did cripple German production capacity, because people go to factories.

As far as blaming - we blamed a subset of people and put the responsibility of reparations on all German citizens(born and unborn). We made sure that they knew why the war happened and how horrible it was. We went so far, that only last month did Germany get over the pacification.

This seems extremely reductive at best, especially with the benefit of hindsight.