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Re:Multicomputation: A Fourth Paradigm for Theoretical Scien... by t_mann on Saturday April 09, 2022 @05:17AM (#30966437)
There's no denying that Stephen Wolfram is a genius and has probably attained a deeper understanding of nature by age 14 than I will achieve in my lifetime. But still, I can't help but cringe when reading sentences like this:

"Basically starting in the early 1980s, there was a burst of progress based on a new idea (of which, yes, I seem to have ultimately been the primary initiator): the idea of using [cellular automata] as the basis for models of things in nature and elsewhere." (narrator voice: cellular automata were invented and applied to model things in nature and elsewhere before Wolfram was born).

Re:Multicomputation: A Fourth Paradigm for Theoretical Scien... by loudouncodes on Saturday April 09, 2022 @09:29AM (#30967903)
This alsp pissed me off. He is totally ignoring Benoit Mandel brot’s work in the 1950’s and John Conways work in the 1970’s. He sounds like a petulent child who takes himself too seriously and expects others do the same. It distracts from an otherwise interesting classification paradigm.

I do not see much difference between his 4th paradigm and a breadth-first search through an np (nondeterministic polynomial) problem. I’d love to know what other mathemeticians that work on dynamical systems (Dr Krieger, anyone?) think of his work…

Re:Multicomputation: A Fourth Paradigm for Theoretical Scien... by t_mann on Saturday April 09, 2022 @09:58AM (#30968116)
I may have actually given him a bit too much credit initially (I'll admit, I didn't read the full article). Even if I acknowledge that Wolfram probably knows a lot more graduate-level math than me, sentences like these raise some eyebrows:

"There are regions of 'metamathematical space' (the slices of proof space) that might have higher 'densities of proofs' corresponding to more interconnected fields of mathematics - or more 'metamathematical energy'. And as part of the generic behavior of multicomputational systems we can expect an analog of Einstein’s equations, and we can expect that 'proof geodesics' will be 'gravitationally attracted' to regions of higher 'metamathematical energy'. (...) In the presence of large amounts of 'metamathematical energy' there’ll effectively be a metamathematical black hole formed. And where there’s a 'singularity in metamathematical space' there’ll be a whole collection of proof paths that just end—effectively corresponding to a decidable area of mathematics."

Is this for real? Is this a legit mathematical theory that leads to new mathematical discoveries? Are these conjectures that he expects to be rigorously provable? Or are these just ramblings of someone who left the game a long time ago and who thinks that he still 'has it'?

Re:Multicomputation: A Fourth Paradigm for Theoretical Scien... by FrozenVoid on Saturday April 09, 2022 @01:22PM (#30969947)
It seems to make sense, if you view that as current math theories treated as "windows" into a space of possible mathematics, like e.g. quantum string theory possibility space(10^500) vs "accepted string theories" https://www.dummies.com/article/academics-the-arts/science/p...
Re:Multicomputation: A Fourth Paradigm for Theoretical Scien... by tinco on Saturday April 09, 2022 @10:13AM (#30968246)
Not to give any credence to Wolfram's theories, I'm wholly unqualified, but why not? Mathematics extends all the way into algorithms and complexity. We have already established that for example machine learning could lead to new mathematical discoveries, and machine learning is easily described by math.

Of course whether such a space is in any way practically computable or of a scale that could even reasonably comprehendable to a human being or even to some machine is an unanswered question.

Re:Multicomputation: A Fourth Paradigm for Theoretical Scien... by t_mann on Saturday April 09, 2022 @11:09AM (#30968685)
Sure, in principle it's interesting, and I can fathom that statements like these could in principle be provable. This 'graphical' perspective could lead to interesting insights eg in proof theory (I actually wouldn't be surprised if things like that had already been done).

My point was rather: making any statement in modern mathematics is hard. I was wondering how serious he is about formally establishing any insights about his ideas, eg a connection between proof spaces and Einstein's equations (presumably general relativity).

Re:Multicomputation: A Fourth Paradigm for Theoretical Scien... by eximius on Saturday April 09, 2022 @11:24AM (#30968826)
Theorising about a structure behind proofs made of an alphabet isnt new - its part of theorems like Godels Incompleteness, etc.

Actually exploring or evaluating objects in this space has always (and continues to be) intractable due to the high complexity and computational power required.

Re:Multicomputation: A Fourth Paradigm for Theoretical Scien... by whodunnit on Saturday April 09, 2022 @03:21PM (#30971114)
The big ego stuff and always needing to feed it with claiming credit for everything reminds me a lot of narcissistic personality disorder, which is caused by childhood emotional abuse, so I think we should just humor his ego and recognize it for what it is, that is be kind and understand what causes that sort of thing, while not letting it distract us from the value of the research he’s doing. Intellectually Wolfram is clearly a very intelligent person; emotionally he is underdeveloped.
Re:Multicomputation: A Fourth Paradigm for Theoretical Scien... by Bostonian on Saturday April 09, 2022 @07:51PM (#30973259)
I doubt that any personality disorder has as its sole cause "childhood emotional abuse", so I would not want to indirectly someone's parents because of their perceived personality flaws.
Re:Multicomputation: A Fourth Paradigm for Theoretical Scien... by whodunnit on Sunday April 10, 2022 @03:14AM (#30975059)
Good point. I encourage you to read up on the personality disorders, they are fascinating.
Re:Multicomputation: A Fourth Paradigm for Theoretical Scien... by andrewpolidori on Saturday April 09, 2022 @12:30PM (#30969457)
I think a fairer reading of the paragraph isn't that he's claiming to have initiated work in cellular automata as a whole but that he's claiming to have been the initiator of the "burst of productivity" in the 80s.
Re:Multicomputation: A Fourth Paradigm for Theoretical Scien... by t_mann on Sunday April 10, 2022 @03:50AM (#30975197)
But he does call it a new idea, directly followed by three strong words (ultimately, primary, initiator). I'm not saying the only reasonable interpretation of the sentence is that he's overstating his role. But what does make me cringe is that it can easily mislead readers who aren't familiar with the history of this specific idea, and that this confusion would have been easy to avoid.
Re:Multicomputation: A Fourth Paradigm for Theoretical Scien... by Qem on Saturday April 09, 2022 @05:30AM (#30966490)
After that time when he tried to deny credit for a discovery to an employee, using a NDA, now I always wonder when he claims something if it is truly his work or just misappropriation of other people's ideas. He aims to be a new Newton or Einstein, but may end just as another L'Hôpital.
Re:Multicomputation: A Fourth Paradigm for Theoretical Scien... by azeirah on Saturday April 09, 2022 @06:04AM (#30966642)
He just kinda sounds like how Edison is represented nowadays. Claims to be popular inventor but is just a bright guy with thousands of equally bright employees doing the other 99% of the innovations.
Re:Multicomputation: A Fourth Paradigm for Theoretical Scien... by hadjian on Saturday April 09, 2022 @06:02AM (#30966630)
I thought Newton was the ass of math history (e.g. Hooke and Leibnitz feuds). What did L‘Hôpital do?
Re:Multicomputation: A Fourth Paradigm for Theoretical Scien... by Qem on Saturday April 09, 2022 @06:19AM (#30966725)
He was a rich nobleman that tried to pass some discoveries of one of the Bernoulli brothers as his own, in exchange for cold, hard cash. He was partially successful. Despite this fact becoming broadly known in the math world, a important rule in calculus is still known by his name. See https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%27H%C3%B4pital%27s_rule and https://people.math.harvard.edu/~knill/teaching/math1a_2011/...
Re:Multicomputation: A Fourth Paradigm for Theoretical Scien... by codeflo on Saturday April 09, 2022 @08:03AM (#30967289)
I guess the name stuck because naming even more things after the Bernoullis would just be too confusing.
Re:Multicomputation: A Fourth Paradigm for Theoretical Scien... by codeflo on Saturday April 09, 2022 @11:40AM (#30968971)
“List of things named after members of the Bernoulli family”: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_things_named_after_m...
Re:Multicomputation: A Fourth Paradigm for Theoretical Scien... by hadjian on Sunday April 10, 2022 @03:27AM (#30975105)
Thanks for the history lesson. Yes, I know the rule from high school. Newton however did a much better job in making his name live forever. And they all succeeded in erasing their questionable behavior from lectures. Money can buy a lot.
Re:Multicomputation: A Fourth Paradigm for Theoretical Scien... by JohnHaugeland on Saturday April 09, 2022 @03:41PM (#30971315)
It's interesting to try to find inventions by him that aren't presaged