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Re:The Influence of Neuromancer on Cyberpunk by ineedasername on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @01:01PM (#30921608)
I think the aesthetic, whether Gibson likes it or not, is interesting & compelling enough to stand on its own, outside of any specific or inherent social commentary. Though I agree that as an environment for stories its no longer well suited to commentary on society today. Some of what he envisioned has become mundane parts of everyday life, in some form or another. Others never much materialized. For the former, well, mundane doesn't cut it if you're after edge-walking commentary on society's direction at the intersection of technology and human behavior.

Charles Stross's early works came in at tail end of cyberpunk, lets call it the silver age, and to me they read like they're trying to find a way forward for the genre, and he ultimately decided that wasn't the way to go. So he branched out from there, including to near-future sci-fi. This was ultimately a dead end because he kept finding that, no matter how strange the plot, by the time a manuscript was really starting to take its final form he was already proven right by current events. And publishing schedules being what they are, his book wouldn't hit shelves until a year or more later at which point they'd read like derivative commentary on year++ old events. Essentially, his predictions were pretty good, but his expected timeline was far too generous: the future was coming too fast. All of his work is worth reading though, and I think his Laundry Files & Merchant series would appeal to different, somewhat overlapping sets of HN readers. For one of the most interesting mind fck time travel stories, check out his short work Palimpsest.

Re:The Influence of Neuromancer on Cyberpunk by RangerScience on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @01:23PM (#30921913)
Strongly recommend the Laundry files. Note that they start rougher (hewing very close to the original concept of "grumpy sysadmin in weird circumenstances") but quickly mature into more.
Re:The Influence of Neuromancer on Cyberpunk by blacksmith_tb on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @07:46PM (#30926625)
Pretty sure Mr. Stross is a regular around here. I personally couldn't warm up too much to his Laundry or Merchant Princes books, but Singularity Sky and Iron Sunrise are excellent, and Accelrando was also fun.
Re:The Influence of Neuromancer on Cyberpunk by sien on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @11:31PM (#30928187)
Re:The Influence of Neuromancer on Cyberpunk by BlueTemplar on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @03:07PM (#30923472)
As he half-jokingly describes himself :

> Along the way he collected degrees in Pharmacy and Computer Science, making him the world's first officially qualified cyberpunk writer (just as cyberpunk curled up and died).

More about that close future scifi dead end :

http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2018/01/the-craz...

Including a... pandemic novel !

https://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2020/04/reality...

Re:The Influence of Neuromancer on Cyberpunk by telchior on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @02:59PM (#30923380)
You're right on in your first sentence. Aesthetics trump message when art reaches wide popularity.

... I swear that I used the word "trump" above unintentionally, but my example for this is Trump rallies using music from bands like Rage Against the Machine, Neil Young and R.E.M. The music contains messages that explicitly speak against the type of political power being wielded, and! the artists themselves speak up about how much they despise the people using their music. The fact that the message is being misused couldn't be clearer. But the people using it are there for the aesthetic: the general sound and feeling of being rebels, ahead of the curve, etc.

And honestly I think that's a good thing. Creative reuse results in good and bad; jazz and Christian rock. Creators can't control their art once it's in the public, and the world would be a smaller place if they could.

Sorry I didn't reply to the part about Charles Stross, it looks like an interesting commentary but I'm not familiar enough with Stross in particular.

Re:The Influence of Neuromancer on Cyberpunk by EricE on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @03:17PM (#30923616)
lol - if you think Trump was part of the political establishment you clearly weren't paying attention!
Re:The Influence of Neuromancer on Cyberpunk by user_7832 on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @05:14PM (#30925119)
Anybody who was/is as rich as he was even when he started is inherently a part of the political establishment, especially so when you don't just stay low and mind your own business (see: Bezos' impact on unions in the US)
Re:The Influence of Neuromancer on Cyberpunk by telchior on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @04:02PM (#30924233)
He wasn't when he ran; he is now; neither fact matters at all for the point, which is that the message of the art (the songs being used in campaign events) was being misused / destroyed, by direct testimony of the artists. Same as Gibson saying he doesn't approve of how his cyberpunk message is being used.