L.A. judge rules LGBT corporate diversity law unconstitutional

Re:L.A. judge rules LGBT corporate diversity law unconstitut... by avazhi on Sunday April 03, 2022 @04:10AM (#30895322)

Look, I agree that it's biological - I'm not claiming, for example, that people who claim to have 'gender dysphoria' are lying. No doubt there are both men and women who don't feel right in their own bodies. But I draw the line there. I think surgeries and hormone treatments, particularly in children, are abhorrent and that we as a societal are enabling mental illness and self-mutilation. One interesting thing I never see anybody talk about is that perhaps (and I'd suggest this is the case) the reason suicide rates amongst trannies is so high is literally that they are mentally ill/fucked up to begin with. The data show that having the treatments don't actually help the outcomes - ie., if you're miserable as a natural born male, you're likely to be miserable after you undergo genital mutilation and hormone therapy.

Point is - no doubt there's something biologically and cognitively going on with these people (I'd frame it as there being something wrong with them, in the same sense that eating disorders are maladaptive and harmful).

Longwinded way of saying I agree with you.

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Re:L.A. judge rules LGBT corporate diversity law unconstitut... by Retric on Sunday April 03, 2022 @05:05AM (#30895547)

So after reading that I went to check the literature and it seems to on average be a net benefit. Complications and regret are both possible, but various objective and subjective measurements do improve on average.

Ex: https://www.cms.gov/Medicare/Coverage/DeterminationProcess/D...

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Re:L.A. judge rules LGBT corporate diversity law unconstitut... by avazhi on Sunday April 03, 2022 @05:51AM (#30895722)

Just because their subjective well-being improves doesn't mean the problem is solved, and you'll see that even after 'treatment' they are still much more likely to commit suicide or suffer from depression compared to the general population. My personal hunch is that, again, these people have a mental illness, but we as a society have framed it in the way that if they just get surgery we can fix their dysphoria - when they get the treatments and then they are just as unhappy, or only slightly happier than they were before, this is sort of the end as they see it. This would also explain why so many of them kill themselves after they have treatment.

Also, though I'm trained as a lawyer, I also have a BsC with an interest in endocrinology and I'd suggest that nothing in the human body besides the brain is more complicated than one's hormones and their interactions inter se. I'm a big believer in modern medicine, but I do think we have too high an opinion of ourselves as a species when it comes to our ability to control outcomes vis-a-vis a person's hormones.

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Re:L.A. judge rules LGBT corporate diversity law unconstitut... by Retric on Sunday April 03, 2022 @10:26AM (#30897157)

These treatments clearly don’t solve the underlying issue. The question is simply are they the best current alternative for a subset of the population. That is supported by hard data, even if the surgery is rather barbaric we simply don’t have the technology to do a better job while either keeping someone their old gender or swapping to another.

As to having a mental illness, that’s often how we describe issues we don’t understand or have the ability to treat. Stress ulcers are a great example of such classifications. I am not disagreeing that many of these people have significant mental issues, but calling something a mental illness isn’t specific enough to do anything with and tends to be used dismissively. Further once the underlying cause is discovered we stop thinking of say mercury poisoning as a mental health issue.

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Re:L.A. judge rules LGBT corporate diversity law unconstitut... by aaaar on Sunday April 03, 2022 @05:01AM (#30895538)

You'll get flagged into oblivion here for pointing this out and holding sensible, do-no-harm type opinions on this topic. Seems that HN has a sizeable contingent of 'trans rights' activists who want to hide such blasphemy from public view.

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Re:L.A. judge rules LGBT corporate diversity law unconstitut... by avazhi on Sunday April 03, 2022 @05:52AM (#30895728)

I've actually been surprised at how constructive the various responses have been. Not sure what other sites you visit regularly, but this is the least draconian site I can think of outside the dark web.

I should also add: the trans-rights thing is actually something that in my experience most people, even those who are otherwise socially 'liberal', generally find disagreeable. I've got gay friends and feminist friends who both get just as outraged as I do at the idea that men should be able to waltz into female bathrooms, or compete in women's sports, etc. My own view is that this is actually something that the large majority of the population thinks a certain way about, but as usual in this day and age a very small minority of people dedicate their existence to 'activism' and cause the movement to seem larger than it is.

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Re:L.A. judge rules LGBT corporate diversity law unconstitut... by aaaar on Sunday April 03, 2022 @07:58AM (#30896203)

From experience, I've also found the discussion here to often be constructive, but tends to be cut short by being flagged to death. For example, I see that your top comment already has been - which also stops the discussion below it from being visible to anyone who has 'showdead' set to the default.

> My own view is that this is actually something that the large majority of the population thinks a certain way about, but as usual in this day and age a very small minority of people dedicate their existence to 'activism' and cause the movement to seem larger than it is.

Agreed, but also that most people up until recently haven't really thought much about it at all. That the activism of this small minority is drawing more attention and scrutiny of late is probably a good thing in the long run, given all the harmful downstream effects of gender identity ideology, particularly on women and children.

I think this image post, from a radical feminist forum, makes this point well (with examples): https://ovarit.com/o/Radfemmery/67892/listen-to-tims

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