So advertise, but just not on FB?
>It may be easier for Ramon to click “sell to people who have wiener dogs,” but why shouldn’t a business be in charge of their own marketing?
You answered your own question. Marketing is hard work, and FB makes it very easy to target a huge customer base. Conversion might be good on reddit, but you can do that in addition. Why is FB off limits?
That's a pretty bold claim though. There may be other options but that doesn't mean that they are enough to sustain his business. I think it's plausible that there's a vast swath of products that could not exist without Facebook. A lot of them are probably crap products that I wouldn't like but someone does.
But then again oh, I don't have any problem with targeted advertising for products. I have a bigger problem with targeted political advertising and radicalizing engagement content.
Almost nothing is essential.
I think what people have trouble with are the other things forced on them. They don't want to be spied on, and they don't want to have loud full page videos thrown in their face.
I think it's plainly obvious that spying makes targeted advertising better, but I don't think we have proof that it can't work at all without the private-sector equivalent of the Stasi surveillance state.
I find the argument that advertising was somehow okay before the internet a hard pill to swallow. My recollection is that ads were misleading back then and reserved for larger businesses. It pains me to think about going back to that era.
On the other hand, it’s nice to find small businesses to buy from on YouTube / Instagram / Reddit. It’s also nice that I do not have to pay for these services with money.
So it’s not perfect on the internet. But it does seem a hell of a lot better.
Yes exactly. Advertising in a relevant forum is both on topic there and not infringing anyone's privacy.
Doing anything well is hard work. Facebook is just the easy cop out method to cut corners.
That's a very different thing to just dumping ads on people because they looked at one video about a dog.
Of course such forums have become pretty extinct recently but for some interests they are still there.
Simple: Facebook is particularly slimy in their approach to engagement and making ad impressions, and so supporting their business is morally fraught. I won't elaborate because it's been beat to death as a topic.
Wow. Have you tried this? Reddit mods will ban you in 5 seconds if it smells addy. Forums wtf? that is a niche niche thing these days. Even if you have good standing with a Twitter - that is close to a full time job building followers. FB makes a ton of money - cause this stuff is locked down.
Your example falls flat immediately: the ad buyers are not children. They're adults and should be held to adult standards of awareness and responsibility.
It makes zero sense that you used children and micro transactions as the example for why blame should or should not be allocated to ad buyers.
I somewhat expect adults to understand gambling and in-game transactions and the fact that they are somewhat manipulative [0]. I hold no such expectations for children who generally accept whatever is presented to them. Blaming a child for buying a box of digital gems or what have you will do no good.
Similarly, I don’t think blaming Ramon the wiener dog ramp salesman for advertising on FB is really going to challenge FB’s market dominance and iron grip of advertising. I don’t expect Ramon to understand issues of data privacy, internet surveillance, advertising monopolies, and walled gardens, or - if he does know about them from passing - I don’t think pressuring him to follow his conscience and resist the market size of FB will do any good.
“Blaming” businesses who advertise on FB without providing some alternative in the market will not succeed. Rather than blame Ramon, we should restrict FB’s ability to surveil people whether through private (e.g. Apple) or public (e.g. regulation) means. This way, as FB’s effectiveness dwindles, the market will produce some solutions as alternatives for these businesses to go.
Instead, pressuring and blaming FB for their handlings of these issues will prove far more effective. We’ve already seen some limited success with this strategy, landing FB in Congress multiple times and getting the Netherlands to reconsider their huge data center, not to mention issues of GDPR, the “right to be forgotten,” etc.
I chose children because just as I don’t expect them to resist loot boxes, I don’t expect business owners to resist FB advertising. I listed alternatives that Ramon should do as a good businessman if FB is not an option, and options I believe will yield more direct results and a more loyal customer base. The world is not divided into clueless children and perfectly knowledgeable and ethical adults. But rather than blame the advertisers (Ramon), we should go after the ad market (FB).
[0]: That said, I still think we should blame the companies who use dark patterns and casino strategies to trigger people’s tendencies to gamble or “roll the dice” after a couple hours playing a game. You could say “players” instead of children, but this isn’t really analogous to small businesses because I still expect some adult players to know when they’re being played. I don’t expect any small business to reject FB advertising if it is presented as a way to reach a huge customer base.
On Facebook, I recall seeing an ad for a sticker you can put on your phone which supposedly blocks radiation to protect your brain. That is, in my not so humble opinion, a scam product which preys on and perpetuates a false fear. The first time I saw this ad, I recall commenting that it was a scam and people shouldn't waste their money, and reporting the ad. I saw it again recently on my monthly-or-so visit to FB, and the commenting was turned off, which is how most ads are delivered.
On car forums I used to visit, it wasn't uncommon for people to push scammy products, but there were also respected members identifying them as BS.
> suddenly those Facebook ads stopped working
Maybe Ramon should go onto wiener dog forums, groups, subreddits, and advertise his product. List on Amazon, or partner with smaller, online pet businesses like Chewy. I guarantee these will have high conversion rates than vacuuming up search queries for “wiener dog,” cross referencing them with device identifiers, browser fingerprints, Facebook pixels, computer vision tagged photos, and IP addresses to build a psychological profile you sell to Ramon. It may be easier for Ramon to click “sell to people who have wiener dogs,” but why shouldn’t a business be in charge of their own marketing?