::eye roll:: I think my view now on progressive policies is: They sound super when you're rich and white and don't think whatsoever about the consequences. Then when those consequences come back around to bite you, you probably become a nazi and don't think too hard about that either. Here's the dirty secret of progressive politics: No one who actually came here as an immigrant is at all interested in being fetishized for their racial background or their "noble" poverty. That's not what progressivism was 15 years ago, but that's what it is today. A white power fetishization of nonwhite people that forcefully slots us into categories we're supposed to sympathize with.

Portland is socially progressive but they are not economically progressive. In the word, they’re neo liberal. And I hate to use that term because people don’t truly understand its meaning.

No - they're pseudo-progressive on both fronts. It's not really that. They're passive aggressive. The phrase that always goes through my mind in this city is ineffectual asshole.

Yes, passive aggressive:

"Passive-aggressive people regularly exhibit resistance to requests or demands from family and other individuals often by procrastinating, expressing sullenness, or acting stubborn."

"What do we want!?"

"Ending homelessness!"

"When do we want it?"

"It's impossible!"

Oh, ending homelessness is a stupid priority. Giving people the education to take care of themselves if they choose to is important, but what they do with it is only my problem if they make it my problem. I can't spend my life taking care of people who refuse to take care of themselves.

> I can't spend my life taking care of people who refuse to take care of themselves.

This is how a society collapses, when people think they know who "refuses" to take care of themselves and who simply cannot.

It strikes me that none* of these are "liberal policies" but rather realities that arose in a few West Coast liberal cities that simply couldn't handle the influx of people who came to SF, Portland, Seattle.

* Perhaps no bail, although I think in isolation that's unlikely to be an issue

These areas are always unique because transient and the homeless can live with some degree of year round comfort, so they will be naturally appealing to people who have uncertain housing prospects.

These are all liberal/progressive policies enacted across the West Coast - Seattle, Portland, San Francisco, Los Angelas.

Progressives believe in restorative justice not prison or punishment. They believe that justice is actually righting the wrong that caused people to behave this way in the first place. "The infinite perfectability of man". That's a core progressive belief. Thus they "catch and release" for non-violent (and sometimes violent) crimes. Reduce property crimes to misdemeanors, and generally tell law abiding citizens - "just put up with quality of life issues".

Suffice to say the experiment has failed entirely.

Lawlessness begets more lawlessness. Giving people a place to shoot drugs (without treatment options) just helps addict get their fix. Not prosecuting property crimes just encourages ever more bold property crimes.

And the funny part is, it's not poverty driving much of this. It's organized crime - easy pickings, low hanging fruit. It's not the single mom trying to feed her newborn milk that is stealing catalytic converters.

I keep saying this, but history repeats itself. Major urban cities saw mass out migrations in the 60-70s for this exact reason. Crime, lawlessness, rioting, general degradation of QOL. The "Death Wish" movie series about a vigilante taking on a lawless city wasn't popular because people enjoyed the genre. I could easily see it happening again, especially with WFH. Then the "law and order" types will get elected and we'll start the whole thing over again.

What you're saying is right. I still fail to understand whether "restorative justice" actually comes from love or from some desire to watch the world burn. But you're describing what I've seen with my own eyes in the past few years in PDX. A slow self-immolation. What's sort of nuts to me is: I'm an extremist for personal freedom and individual rights, I loathe authority but I believe in collaborative action, and I'm a leftist in terms of helping people get off the bottom and on their feet. I guess that's what "liberal" used to mean. But I'm morally offended by what progressivism stands for now. I can't see the reason in justifying terrorism against working people by people who refuse to work, and worse, clothing it in some kind of bullshit moral superiority. Because that's what it's become.

> Suffice to say the experiment has failed entirely.

You've described the justice systems of modern progressive countries and what would you know, they work fine. The US needs a firm hand because it's culturally savage. Folks think about themselves and corporate "culture" is enshrined as something good and expected. Everyone sees the exploitation of other human beings and denigration everywhere, is it any surprise that they cannot behave in a manner that has a little compassion for themselves and everyone else? The entire environment is fundamentally dehumanising. No amount of localised niceness is going to undo decades of absolutely brutal culture.

No.

The people I know in progressive countries are shocked at the rampant violence that is tolerated and no prosecuted and punished in the US. It wouldn’t be tolerated in their countries.

Hell, the lefties I know in Europe look at the West Coast of the US and ask “what the fuck are you doing?”

> No amount of localised niceness is going to undo decades of absolutely brutal culture.

Well said.

> Progressives believe in restorative justice not prison or punishment.

I think this is a dramatic misrepresentation. The west Coast cities you're referencing are making these decisions because practically speaking they do not have the resources to deal with what's happening in their cities.

These things aren't happening in other "liberal" cities because they don't have those policies. I think you're confusing the egg for the chicken.

Why is the same thing not happening en masse in Austin, in NYC, in Boston, in Atlanta, in DC, in Tampa? These are liberal cities.

The answer is the underlying problem is bigger than liberalism.

Justice reform has been desperately needed for decades, but that's not what's happening here. What's happening here is underfunded cities being overwhelmed and largely giving up.

Also, these "progressives" have never tried to address the flaws of capitalism in any meaningful way. FDR knew what to do to "save capitalism".

And organized crime and poverty climb on the backs of each other. To blame one or the other is simplistic.

So far the “fixes” for capitalism have all made things worse. But no doubt the next idea we try will fix things!

FDR saved capitalism. There is no fixing capitalism since exploitation is necessary for its existence.

FDR got his pee-pee slapped down for trying to do a run around on the constitution.

But you keep working on your anarchistic utopia while the rest of get “exploited” and pay taxes that actually support the people who you claim to care about.

you know I can hold two thoughts in my head at the same time. I can be appreciative of taxes and the system that helps support others who are in need, and I can at the same time advocate for a system that doesn’t create peoples destitution.

I know, change is hard.