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Re:The NSA Teams Up with the Chinese Government to Limit Int... by biohacker42 on Thursday September 18, 2008 @11:13AM (#308235)
Sadly the NSA and China are NOT strange bed fellows, and you don't need a lot imagination to see what's gone wrong with world.

For the clueless or tragically optimistic:

Fascism came out on top. Communism failed spectacularly, socialism and capitalism slowly give way to fascism.

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Re:The NSA Teams Up with the Chinese Government to Limit Int... by noonespecial on Thursday September 18, 2008 @11:37AM (#308254)
It seems like fascism is the default emergent state of people living together in large numbers. Democracy and liberty can be added to the system via careful thought and dedicated action on that insight. We seem to be in short supply of both.
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Re:The NSA Teams Up with the Chinese Government to Limit Int... by andreyf on Thursday September 18, 2008 @11:50AM (#308269)
Fascism came out on top. Communism failed spectacularly, socialism and capitalism slowly give way to fascism.

Don't be quite so certain... the last chapter has yet to be written. Sometimes things change quickly and dramatically.

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Re:The NSA Teams Up with the Chinese Government to Limit Int... by biohacker42 on Thursday September 18, 2008 @12:17PM (#308308)
Oh I know, I lived through the collapse of communism in Eastern Europe.

And I lived through the painful transition to market democracy... which is still on going, going, going, towards fascism.

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Re:The NSA Teams Up with the Chinese Government to Limit Int... by jrsims on Thursday September 18, 2008 @02:02PM (#308387)
What comes after fascism?
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Re:The NSA Teams Up with the Chinese Government to Limit Int... by biohacker42 on Thursday September 18, 2008 @02:12PM (#308400)
Crisis driven collapse & revolutionary reform which is a lot like flipping a coin and ending up with either a small democratic government or even more fascism.

If you end up with the first, you're still not safe as it tends to grow over time. Think of fascism as the highest entropy state of society.

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Re:The NSA Teams Up with the Chinese Government to Limit Int... by raganwald on Thursday September 18, 2008 @10:38AM (#308205)
Is this why the US under Reagan brought the USSR to its knees? So that the West could team up with China on tracing dissent?

I'm saddened, I really am.

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Re:The NSA Teams Up with the Chinese Government to Limit Int... by qwph on Thursday September 18, 2008 @01:13PM (#308353)
Human history has always been a struggle between those who want to limit the freedom of the individual and those who want to preserve it.

I don't think either side has ever got the upper hand, and I doubt either side ever will.

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Re:The NSA Teams Up with the Chinese Government to Limit Int... by raganwald on Thursday September 18, 2008 @01:57PM (#308383)
There are two questions: Where is the pendulum now? And which way is it swinging?

We may not be living in a Stalinist dictatorship, but I don't like the way things are going on both sides of the 49th parallel.

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Re:The NSA Teams Up with the Chinese Government to Limit Int... by rkowalick on Thursday September 18, 2008 @10:34AM (#308203)
"...imagine a boot stamping on a human face--forever."
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Re:The NSA Teams Up with the Chinese Government to Limit Int... by bootload on Thursday September 18, 2008 @08:34PM (#308772)
"... TraceBack is most useful in monitoring the activities of large masses of people. But of course, that's why the Chinese and the NSA are so interested in this proposal in the first place. ..."

Step 4 on the way to a Fascist state. Set up a comprehensive internal surveillance system ~ http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/apr/24/usa.comment

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