Physics in a diverse world, or a spherical cow model of physics talent

Re:Physics in a diverse world, or a spherical cow model of p... by topaz0 on Monday March 21, 2022 @10:50PM (#30762249)

This is a great way of thinking about diversity. As a physics phd student myself I have observed this a lot -- that the students who put together a fantastic dissertation project are often not the ones who come in with a great transcript or who sound the smartest when asking questions in class. I see that other commenters are intent on misunderstanding this, which is a shame.

Edited to add: separate from the discussion about what this means for admitting students or hiring professors, another important part of this is on the education and mentorship side. A uniform academic (or workplace) culture that rewards people who fulfill a narrow conception of merit will exclude people who have a lot to contribute, but are made to feel uncomfortable in that culture and devalued in that conception of merit.

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Re:Physics in a diverse world, or a spherical cow model of p... by Jensson on Tuesday March 22, 2022 @12:12AM (#30762663)

Sadly I have never seen a diversity initiative that tried to help creative students who weren't getting good grades, or any other way to help increase diversity of thought in physics. Taking the people of different colors with the best grades doesn't lead to the diversity you talk about, instead it seem to make the criteria we use for merit ever narrower in order to ensure fairness, so we are really going backwards.

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Re:Physics in a diverse world, or a spherical cow model of p... by topaz0 on Tuesday March 22, 2022 @03:27AM (#30763504)

I agree that DEI programs rarely take this form, but there are places where this is really the model, including in my program. Even then I would not claim that it is practiced perfectly, but it seems to do a pretty good job of emphasizing the right things.

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Re:Physics in a diverse world, or a spherical cow model of p... by dubya on Tuesday March 22, 2022 @10:23AM (#30766438)

Could you point out your or some of the other places that have a good model for DEI? My department has been struggling with this and will be redoing their mentorship program in the near future.

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Re:Physics in a diverse world, or a spherical cow model of p... by topaz0 on Tuesday March 22, 2022 @12:26PM (#30768108)

Maybe this a good place to start: https://www.science.org/content/article/michigan-s-surprisin...

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Re:Physics in a diverse world, or a spherical cow model of p... by mellosouls on Tuesday March 22, 2022 @02:33AM (#30763263)

I see that other commenters are intent on misunderstanding this, which is a shame.

Or perhaps they just disagree?

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Re:Physics in a diverse world, or a spherical cow model of p... by topaz0 on Tuesday March 22, 2022 @03:34AM (#30763541)

To be clear, I mean to say that they are intent on misunderstanding one proposal from the talk, which is a small piece of what the talk is about. They take that one piece and make unflattering assumptions about its context -- assumptions which are explicitly addressed in the talk. If they brought evidence or experience to refute the experience of the speaker, that would be a different thing. They did not.

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