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Re:I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than... by judge2020 on Sunday March 20, 2022 @11:02PM (#30749700)
Nobody is making any assumptions or predeterminations about cultures, the point is that we need to recognize that it's not the color of your skin or your heritage that determines your placement, it's the environment you grow up in. Coincidentally, this does match up with your 'parental wealth' claim, since any pair of upper-middle-class parents is more likely able to afford to live in an area with schools rated at least 6 by GreatSchools, thus giving their child(ren) a better opportunity at education.

> We are discriminating openly against poor kids. And you only have to see the condition of schools in poor communities to make that immediately clear.

The way I see it, the only thing directly hindering any integration of lower-class and higher-class kids in schools is what I said above - housing prices and general zoning laws that make it nearly impossible to build low-cost housing in existing high-class areas. Any time there is a housing project (read: reasonably priced apartments), "NIMBY" happens and nobody wants the new complex to be built since it'll directly lower the home values of the existing houses in the area; in general, the administration running the local city/county government has to follow their constituents' wishes, so this likely isn't going to change until some higher government passes a law softening the power of zoning laws. This combined with how schools are heavily funded by their county's property taxes creates a barrier where the poorer schools don't get the funding they need to level the playing field and poorer parents can't move to put their kid in better education, thus keeping it hard for the child and their future generations to climb out of poverty.

Re:I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than... by wolverine876 on Sunday March 20, 2022 @11:34PM (#30749910)
> it's not the color of your skin or your heritage that determines your placement

Where could that come from? There is an enormous history of racism in the US, and plenty of it overtly, less overtly, etc. right now. You could see it in this thread, where someone literally said that race was the determining factor. You have to blind yourself not to see it over and over in our society.

And yet it somehow doesn't affect people or their educations? Instead of fighting a political battle, what can we do to end it?

> this does match up with your 'parental wealth' claim, since any pair of upper-middle-class parents is more likely able to afford to live in an area with schools rated at least 6 by GreatSchools, thus giving their child(ren) a better opportunity at education.

I wonder if the research controls for that; it would tell us a lot.

> the only thing directly hindering any integration of lower-class and higher-class kids in schools is what I said above

There is plenty of data to observe; we don't have to guess. What is your guess based on? In my non-systematic and few observations, attempts at integration are resisted aggressively by white parents, especially now. Also, remember school busing.

Over time, observe if the hypothesis that I was told - that I doubted and argued against, and that I had to admit I found true to be - see whether it is true: There is always another story, another explanation, year after year, generation after generation, but the result always consistent with racial discrimination.

Re:I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than... by judge2020 on Monday March 21, 2022 @12:15AM (#30750180)
I’m saying that, right now, those aren’t direct factors, although they are generally the factors that have put the current generation of African Americans in this situation of living in poverty/being apart of the lower class. My point is that no school is worse because 99% of the students are black, they’re worse because they don’t have any expensive houses paying dividends in the form of property taxes to match the luxuries afforded by richer communities.

> In my non-systematic and few observations, attempts at integration are resisted aggressively by white parents, especially now.

This is not contradictory to my point, I’m simply detailing the ‘how’ in their efforts to oppose integration. Nobody is going into school board meetings asking them to put up barriers to prevent black people from integrating, they’re making sure affordable housing projects are never approved.

Re:I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than... by wolverine876 on Monday March 21, 2022 @01:58AM (#30750766)
I agree that funding through real estate taxes is a mechanism of what is called structural racism ("the factors that have put the current generation of African Americans in this situation of living in poverty/being apart of the lower class"), but there are other mechanisms, and there are directly racist beliefs. I don't know how you can claim there are not plenty of racist beliefs, or that they magically have no impact. Off the top of my head, from the last six months, said to me personally by white people:

- 'Everyone knows that black people are biologically inferior.'

- With a smile, and disdain: 'Did you see that Biden's college funding failed? We won't have to pay for the blacks to go to college.'

Look at what happens if racism is brought up on HN: It is shut down vigorously, endless responses saying that it doesn't exist, challenging every aspect, major or minute or imaginary and mostly just argumentative. It must be proven beyond any shadow of a doubt, better than the Laws of Motion, despite overwhelming evidence - why are the standards impossibly high? Imagine all that energy going into addressing racism.

Why are you so determined to deny its existance, even beyond the limited thing about housing? You can see it everywhere, see stories of it everywhere. Talk to any black person, who actually lives it and sees it - don't argue, just be curious. I've never talked to one black person who shares the prevelent view on HN.