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Re:Flash Game Simulates Living on $9/hr. by vacri on Tuesday October 04, 2011 @05:46PM (#3073068)
Hell, if I wouldn't even have had a kid in the first place, until I could ensure that I could raise properly.

Kids have a way of happening even when you don't expect or want them. Combine that with social pressures against abortion, and your stance becomes a luxury.

Also, I'm a bit disturbed that you see field trips at school as a luxury rather than part of a solid, well-rounded education.

Re:Flash Game Simulates Living on $9/hr. by pbhjpbhj on Tuesday October 04, 2011 @09:29PM (#3073730)
>Also, I'm a bit disturbed that you see field trips at school as a luxury rather than part of a solid, well-rounded education. //

It's a luxury because one can't afford it, not because one sees it as a frippery.

My lad wants to do an after school club that the school has been promoting, wants to go to a uniformed group with his friends, etc.. These things would be good experiences, provide useful educational opportunities and best of all be fun. We can't afford them. They are luxuries in the sense that he won't be unloved, malnourished, unfit or uneducated without them.

Re:Flash Game Simulates Living on $9/hr. by vacri on Tuesday October 04, 2011 @09:58PM (#3073801)
'Educated' is not a boolean true/false. Missing out on field trips would not make someone 'uneducated', but it would decrease the breadth of their education.

Example: I'm a city boy, born and bred, but I spent summers on my uncle's farm. Due to that experience, I understand much better how rural people think and why, and the kinds of things that are more important to them.

If I had never spent time on the farm, I would not be 'uneducated', but those experiences have significantly improved my understanding of the people around me - I am much better educated for having these [lengthy] 'field trips'.

Replay this experience in shorter amounts more frequently in the form of field trips and you'll get a variety of different things to help broaden your experience and who knows, you may see something you're passionate about that you might not otherwise see.

So I guess it's a value judgement - you may see a well-rounded education as a luxury. I see it as a necessary building block for a healthy adult life.

Re:Flash Game Simulates Living on $9/hr. by pbhjpbhj on Wednesday October 05, 2011 @05:48PM (#3077771)
>Missing out on field trips would not make someone 'uneducated', but it would decrease the breadth of their education. //

Absolutely.

We do however always go out and about when we have family time. Thankfully the UK tax payer pays for the upkeep of key national museums - visiting them is one of the few things one can do for free. We do have a bent towards natural history, that's usually free too!

>So I guess it's a value judgement - you may see a well-rounded education as a luxury. I see it as a necessary building block for a healthy adult life. //

Oh believe me I'm all for well-rounded. I'm not at all arguing against the enormous value of such things. You say they're necessary things. But my resources don't stretch to paying for them and the society around doesn't value them enough to make them available to all without direct charge.

I'm doing what I can to provide a well rounded education as I see the enormous value a broad education has brought me. For example I studied Art History for only a term before studies for my degree got in the way but I found it immensely valuable as a catalyst to my own enquiry and as a lever in to understanding societal development.

However, I don't think you can really argue that such things are "necessary" for "healthy adult life". Possibly "a doorway to a fulfilling adult life"?

Re:Flash Game Simulates Living on $9/hr. by pyre on Tuesday October 04, 2011 @09:36PM (#3073745)
Depends on the field trips. Most of the places that the field trips go probably have free days. The only difference is that you wouldn't be going with the class. For example, once per month the Portland Art Museum is free from 5pm-8pm and less frequently there are 'free for family' days on the weekends. Going on field trips doesn't mean that you aren't exposed to culture.
Re:Flash Game Simulates Living on $9/hr. by cardine on Tuesday October 04, 2011 @07:17PM (#3073415)
Having unprotected sex is a choice. Not taking birth control is a choice. Not getting an abortion is a choice. Making the decision to not have a kid until they are ready is one that anyone can make. Saying that it is a 'luxury' to decide to not have unprotected sex and take birth control is beyond ridiculous.
Re:Flash Game Simulates Living on $9/hr. by Joakal on Tuesday October 04, 2011 @09:35PM (#3073741)
So, all those women who were brought up without strong parenting due to busy work, overcrowded schools due to underperforming kids and bored youth groups with no programs are going to avoid unprotected sex? That's not considering the amount of drugs, crime, etc to 'escape' life.

I'm not saying that those women (or men) are stupid, I'm saying that they are brought up badly due to the neglect. You're taking so much 'choices' for granted when they are actually educated choices. For example, finances (how much will a kid cost? Bigger car? Food? Rent?), job security (are the parent(s) comfortable?), time constraints (do they have time to spend with them?). Ironically, they may end up neglecting their own children despite best intentions (eg Working overtime on minimum wage so the kid can get into college for example but the kid ends up a drug addict).

The way USA's poverty is a form of a Spartan kid's bath. Many will suffer, a few will make it through and be strong. All the more while other countries provide social programs (Social governments) or strong families (Communal communities) to make it easier and more aware of the responsibilities of having a kid.

Re:Flash Game Simulates Living on $9/hr. by vacri on Tuesday October 04, 2011 @09:37PM (#3073749)
Yes, because teenagers are well-noted for their life experience, level of education, and decision-making abilities. And abortion is freely-available everywhere, with no social stigmas attached.

Throw into that mix 'abstinence-only' sex education, and your 'choices' disappear. If you don't know about protected sex, and it's clear that all this "choice" you mention is just illusion for a great many people.

You can't say "why didn't you use a condom?" if you block the information about condom use. Hell, in some parts of Africa, the Catholic Church is spreading information that condoms cause AIDS. Where's the choice there? Where is the 'luxury' there?

By the way, I didn't say the sex was the luxury, I said your stance was the luxury - this expectation that kids come along when you plan them. If you actually speak to parents, you'll find that kids frequently come along despite using high-reliability birth control, and sometimes never come along despite desperately trying for years.

What really is beyond ridiculous is your cold, calculating opinion of how humans operate, combined with this expectation that all humans have access to the information you have.