News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:I found a security issue on a competitor, got fired and s... by paxys on Wednesday March 16, 2022 @11:51PM (#30707478)
You can get into legal trouble simply by looking at the source code of a web page you are browsing, as has happened in several famous recent cases. However, the take away from that isn't "if you go into Chrome developer tools you totally had it coming".

There are bounds to what is or should be considered reasonable testing, and if you don't press against them then they will keep moving closer and closer to the point where simply using your own computer in ways the manufacturer didn't intend will be illegal (and that is already happening as well).

According to what the author describes he did absolutely nothing wrong morally or legally, and the attitude of victim blaming prevalent in this thread is a huge problem in the security industry. We should be supporting rather than crucifying him, because one of us will surely be next for looking at a website the wrong way.

Re:I found a security issue on a competitor, got fired and s... by tptacek on Wednesday March 16, 2022 @11:58PM (#30707516)
It is absolutely not the case that the author described something absolutely legal. I don't care if you think it's "victim blaming"; I am making a simple positive statement, not a normative one. People will get hurt buying into what you're saying. There's no "reasonable testing" exception to the CFAA. You're very unlikely to be prosecuted for doing this stuff, but it's not that unlikely that you will get wrecked with legal bills reaching that conclusion.
Re:I found a security issue on a competitor, got fired and s... by borski on Thursday March 17, 2022 @03:46AM (#30708597)
'tptacek is 100% correct here. Anyone reading this: please listen to these words of wisdom, because not doing so is how you get seriously hurt in the eyes of the law.

Hack, but hack carefully, at least until there are laws that protect you. Today, there aren't.

Re:I found a security issue on a competitor, got fired and s... by paxys on Thursday March 17, 2022 @12:02AM (#30707536)
Considering the author hasn't been pronounced guilty by any court I'm not sure how you can say that with any confidence.
Re:I found a security issue on a competitor, got fired and s... by teraflop on Thursday March 17, 2022 @12:15AM (#30707615)
There is a huge gray area between "absolutely legal in all circumstances" and "absolutely not legal under any circumstances". The fact that somebody has not (so far) been found guilty in court doesn't mean their conduct was definitely legal.

If you're trying to discuss whether something is legal in general, looking at a broad spectrum of case law is generally more instructive than focusing on the outcome of one particular case.

Re:I found a security issue on a competitor, got fired and s... by vkou on Thursday March 17, 2022 @04:21AM (#30708797)
1. tptacek is an expert on this subject. He works in security. He is giving good advice, that's not going to land people into a pile of shit.

2. You don't need to be found guilty for a court to ruin your life. If you doubt me, ask anyone who's 'won'[1] a nasty divorce.

[1] And I don't mean the lawyer.

Re:I found a security issue on a competitor, got fired and s... by glo4 on Thursday March 17, 2022 @01:31AM (#30707990)
Because the behavior described in the blog post is open and shut CFAA-and-equivalents, regardless of weaseling over words like “authorized” and “access” and “computer”. The author’s own words complete a CFAA case. Not argue for. Complete. The narrative as described is prosecutable.

You could have done everything the author claims to have done in order to stop a Martian invasion or the extinction of every living thing or in the genuine spirit of trying to help and it’s still several prima facie violations of CFAA. It just is. I’m sorry. The why doesn’t matter, barring the contractual scenario tptacek points out (and which STILL requires diligence by both parties to avoid prosecution).

To be clear I think it sucks what happened to the author, but if weev goes down for enumerating primary IDs via a Web browser (and to be fair, also trying to sell the data like a complete tool), setting up an entire technical infrastructure to compromise this app in this way is trivially demonstrable intent. You and I both know what Charles does. Now wait until a prosecutor spins the whole setup as a giant technical hack that shows this person intended to compromise a competitor. I’m not even finished with law school and I’m certain I could prosecute this person successfully, but note that doesn’t mean I’m saying they should be.

Given what you said here and to your point, I’m going to preempt your likely retort and point out that I’ve described the behavior as afoul of CFAA and not the person. You’re right that they are entitled to due process. The blog post is literally evidence is all. I’d bet my Rams tickets next year there’s a subpoena on its way to this post. If not in a theoretical criminal case, then definitely in the civil litigation already underway (again, taking the author at face value).

tptacek is right, and I mean this with respect: you really need to be careful with your opinions on CFAA, particularly when potentially suggesting violation thereof. Your pronouncement that the person didn’t do anything illegal is actionable in a very distant, fucked up world with a bunch of prerequisites, but still a very very possible world. (IANAL/YL, comment is general opinion and not advice, etc)

Re:I found a security issue on a competitor, got fired and s... by FDSGSG on Thursday March 17, 2022 @04:41AM (#30708901)
> You're very unlikely to be prosecuted for doing this stuff, but it's not that unlikely that you will get wrecked with legal bills reaching that conclusion.

What he's saying seems to be exactly in line with what's happening. Even if the author doesn't end up being found guilty by any court, he'll still be wasting a bunch of money on lawyers.

Re:I found a security issue on a competitor, got fired and s... by mekal on Thursday March 17, 2022 @09:21AM (#30710868)
How could you possibly get into legal trouble for viewing the source code of a website? Are we talking about China or North Korea maybe??
Re:I found a security issue on a competitor, got fired and s... by randomswede on Monday March 21, 2022 @11:30AM (#30755214)
See the recent(ish) "but, hacker, prosecute!" case with teacher PII in, um, some US state or another. Where a journalist was looking likely to be put up on charges of "computer hacking" based on exactly just "view source".