Apple likes to trot out Facebook as a privacy boogeyman when it comes to defending their App Store business model, but when their business model necessitates that Facebook has invasive native apps, suddenly they're silent.

PWAs would increase security all around compared to native apps, but that might cut into App Store revenue.

> Apple likes to trot out Facebook as a privacy boogeyman when it comes to defending their App Store business model, but when their business model necessitates that Facebook has invasive native apps, suddenly they're silent.

Are you joking? https://www.macrumors.com/2022/02/03/facebook-10-billion-in-...

Exactly my point, they'll trot Facebook out as a defense of their App Store model just like they did here. PWAs from the beginning would have prevented Facebook from collecting data for the last decade in the first place, but that's not a solution Apple would allow.

True, a PWA wouldn’t have been able to get the unique device ID, which is (I think) the only technical effect of the App Tracking Transparency toggle added last year. But that toggle also has legal effects that go further [1]. For instance, apps can’t “[display] targeted advertisements in your app based on user data collected from apps and websites owned by other companies”, even that data was correlated with your app session based on, say, account name or email address rather than device IDs. But the only reason Apple is in a position to impose this kind of requirement is that they’re a gatekeeper for iOS apps. With web apps, short of government action, the best you can do ask nicely, and we all know how the Do Not Track header ended up.

[1] https://developer.apple.com/app-store/user-privacy-and-data-..., “Asking Permission to Track”

With a web-app, you can write an extension. With native, no such luck.

https://www.fbpurity.com/

> Exactly my point, they'll trot Facebook out as a defense of their App Store model just like they did here

I don't understand why that's unexpected when a core idea of the App Store model is that Apple can better protect its customers against bad actors.

> PWAs from the beginning would have prevented Facebook from collecting data for the last decade in the first place…

I'm not sure how you arrived at that conclusion. My assumption is that a rounding error's percentage of Facebook users choose the PWA over the native app on platforms which support both, like Android. If you have actual data on this, I'd appreciate hearing about it.

The claim is expected it's just being called out as false basis with explanation of why after your quoted section.

I don't really see how % of users plays into it. I mean it's great the App Store is finally on board with being more strict on blocking user tracking after a decade of business but as long as more than 0 wanted to fix it before and couldn't because of the PWA and/or app sources policies then then policy around not-allowing those is based on protecting the App Store regardless how often privacy is brought up as the reason.

I mean it's great they protect it for the customers that fall towards the default option now don't get me wrong but while nice that doesn't really have anything to do with why all users were forced through the App Store before or after the policy change.

Can I just say “throwing the dishes out with the bathwater” is the best thing I’ve read today? I want you to get the notifications you prefer, I want to not get web notifications, I don’t care to argue over that. I just want to appreciate doing the dishes in anyone’s bath water. That’s darn efficient!

I interact with FB messages solely through mbasic.facebook.com, even on my phone. It’s painful enough to keep me off the site, a benefit.

I've used it in a container for ages (SlimSocial on F-Droid store). I removed it being listed by my launcher so I have to go through Settings > Apps and scroll that list. It's so annoying to use and get to it that I barely use Facebook anymore.

Whoa I didn't know that this existed, thank you for sharing it.

How do you use messenger like this? When I go to messenger.com a get pretty much just button with link play store...

Just log into Facebook.com in Chrome, enable Push Notifications, and then press new message notifications to re-launch Facebook.com.

Not recommended unless you have some isolation as you maybe leaking data through the browser.

Turn on Desktop Mode for that site.