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Re:XVideos: The porn empire next door by hnbad on Monday March 14, 2022 @08:28AM (#30671584)
I don't think this is your implied reading of what you present, but it's worth considering how desperate for money (or how self-destructive, either is deeply concerning) you need to be to be willing to keep going back to traumatizing experience after traumatizing experience despite being aware enough of the trauma to seek out a mental health professional.

It's one thing to look at a story like this and say "oh, well, porn actresses knowingly make bad choices, I guess they just want the cash" and another to question what drives people to knowingly self-harm for money.

Re:XVideos: The porn empire next door by rasz on Monday March 14, 2022 @08:36AM (#30671653)
Its their choice. You can do 10 solo toy scenes, or one where some repulsive dude puts a toilet seat on your neck and pisses straight into your mouth. Why blame third parties for your own consensual life choices?
Re:XVideos: The porn empire next door by AussieWog93 on Monday March 14, 2022 @08:43AM (#30671709)
>Why blame third parties for your own consensual life choices?

Because certain people (homeless, mentally ill, dealing with substance abuse) will agree to degrading treatment that no regular person would accept. Taking advantage of someone in these sorts of situations is predatory.

Re:XVideos: The porn empire next door by ethbr0 on Monday March 14, 2022 @09:06AM (#30671949)
And the porn industry seems designed to wash guilt. The directors just make films. The sites just host content. The viewers just watch content.

But in aggregate, this system creates a huge financial incentive to exploit anyone you can.

I'm all for regulation, if done in a non-puritanical, individual freedom-promoting way. People should be able to choose to be involved in producing porn. No one should feel forced into producing porn.

If we, as a society, aren't willing to ban porn (and I don't think we should), then we have a moral obligation to prevent workplace exploitation in its production via regulation, investigation, and social support resources.

Re:XVideos: The porn empire next door by api on Monday March 14, 2022 @09:43AM (#30672335)
Maybe the solution is to pursue a society where people are not so unequal that they feel tempted to degrade themselves for money? Maybe we should have minimum income to at least a level where everyone is capable of meeting basic needs, basically "fuck you money" for everyone.

IMHO doing obviously unethical work for money is also degrading and is much more common than porn. It's one thing if someone wants the money and doesn't care, but there are millions of people around the world in e.g. scam call centers that do this kind of work to stay out of the worst of the slums.

Re:XVideos: The porn empire next door by ptsneves on Monday March 14, 2022 @11:14AM (#30673384)
I know you propose it with a maybe and i do not mean to attack you. That said, it is so simplistic to think people only do degrading things because they need money, that if they had money it would not happen. I think we are so more gray than that.

"fuck you money" is undefined. I am pretty sure that there are people that do not care about the amount, they care how they are compared to their peers. Just for these people, arguably most people, your solution already fails.

The other simplification is the assertion that degradation is a universal concept and that the threshold is the same. This is extremely difficult to define and i am pretty sure a catholic priest's definition of degradation starts at anything else than marital sex. We can define something more liberal but then we need to take the great step of saying what is acceptable regarding one's sexuality. Seems to me most liberal societies decide to bail that discussion, just deciding that if you did it without coercion it is fine. I also find that position objectionable by the way, as there are work contracts which are by definition illegal(eg, a contract for work of more than 40 hours per week), and i do not see why we could not go further.

All and all, maybe giving these people social security, requirements for mental and physical tests, a subsidy for change of employment, could help lower the chance of unfair and dysfunctional societies. At the same time if someone wants to do, distribute or consume this stuff, then we get the benefit that the chain is legitimate. I think that is really worth it. Sex workers do really important social work.

Re:XVideos: The porn empire next door by NoGravitas on Monday March 14, 2022 @11:25AM (#30673509)
Absolutely. The problem with sex work isn't that it's sex, but that it's work.
Re:XVideos: The porn empire next door by hnbad on Wednesday March 16, 2022 @05:58AM (#30696974)
It's both. All wage labor is exploitative. But that doesn't mean all wage labor is equally abusive. Even without the cultural biases against sex work, there's a tangible difference in the vulnerability of selling intimacy.
Re:XVideos: The porn empire next door by ethbr0 on Monday March 14, 2022 @09:48AM (#30672398)
I caught the pre-edit phrasing and agreed with it too. ;)

But agreed that the greater good would be looking at the structural facts that force people into unethical work and addressing those.

Re:XVideos: The porn empire next door by hermannj314 on Monday March 14, 2022 @09:50AM (#30672427)
That observation has nothing to do with the porn industry. The agricultural and meat processing industries have been aware of this for centuries.
Re:XVideos: The porn empire next door by Workaccount2 on Monday March 14, 2022 @10:01AM (#30672545)
Its an avenue for people who consistently make bad decisions to monetize that trait.

Brutal take, but I would argue it's just as valid as the opposite take:

"People who helplessly fell through the cracks become victims of those preying on the weak"

In reality its a mix of both and would come down to arguing over which is more prevelant.

Re:XVideos: The porn empire next door by newaccount74 on Monday March 14, 2022 @08:51AM (#30671789)
People often to go back to their abusers, even though it means getting abused again. That doesn't mean it's okay to abuse them.
Re:XVideos: The porn empire next door by idontknowifican on Monday March 14, 2022 @09:51AM (#30672440)
no one is telling you you can’t get off to it, you just don’t get to act like it’s ok anymore. we both understand that there are factors outside of money when exchanging it for services. these women are offered things they can’t turn down due to other issues. no need to dance around it, just add lack of consent to your kinks and the porn is even better
Re:XVideos: The porn empire next door by rowanG077 on Monday March 14, 2022 @10:41PM (#30681153)
> these women are offered things they can’t turn down due to other issues.

Yes that's generally how jobs work. You need to take them to make money to survive. Porn is not special in this case.

Re:XVideos: The porn empire next door by hnbad on Wednesday March 16, 2022 @06:23AM (#30697101)
I used to think this way too and the attitude is still widespread even on the left, but porn is special because sex work is tangibly different.

You may argue that the difference is entirely cultural and if our culture were different, sex work would stop being special, but with things being as they are, there's no place on Earth where sex work isn't different from other forms of work.

Heck, just looking at it without considering the actual sex acts and sexual nature of the work, porn is mixing a lot of extremes from other fields of work (emotional labor, selling your physical likeness, intense physical labor, etc) while often involving extremely toxic work environments and abusive business practices. It's "easy money" in terms of money received as a function of time spent, but it's not at all an easy line of work even if you ignore all the social and cultural aspects of it (e.g. risk of losing your home, losing custody, being disowned by your family, difficulty finding romantic partners, risk of being physically, emotionally and sexually abused by people outside work, etc).

Re:XVideos: The porn empire next door by rasz on Monday March 14, 2022 @09:59AM (#30672528)
Nice personal attack.

>can’t turn down due to other issues

Like what? The difference between soft and hardcore stuff is probably ~10x the payout at the extreme end. So instead of one $3-5K scene and lets go shopping you now have to work every 2-4 days.

Re:XVideos: The porn empire next door by idontknowifican on Monday March 14, 2022 @10:15AM (#30672689)
how’s it a personal attack? the scene is legal, the exchange is known to both parties, it’s completely between two consenting adults, don’t kink shame.

so the term i’m dancing around is intersectionality. the opportunities afforded to these folks present them with artificially constrained options, and that constraint is the true issue here, not the porn. do not misrepresent my argument because you assumed i was being an ass, i’m just trying to call it as it is and for us to acknowledge it not change it lol

Re:XVideos: The porn empire next door by robbedpeter on Monday March 14, 2022 @10:21AM (#30672769)
There's something comparable there to workers doing extremely dangerous work, like crab fishing, oil drilling, and so forth. They pay crazy amounts of money because of the danger, only crazy people do the work. There's a huge psychological difference with sex work, of course, and the insurance and legal protections leave a lot to be desired. Maybe extreme work that entails risk of permanent physical harm should have a standard mandatory insurance threshold.

The contracts porn stars sign are often abusive of themselves.

American prudishness is a nasty force in the world. Sex work needs better regulation, less stigma, and maybe post office style banking isn't such a bad idea, since they couldn't discriminate against people in this arena.