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Re:Why We Banned the Word “Ethnic” (2019) by zozbot234 on Sunday March 13, 2022 @12:06PM (#30662532)
> instead of trying to investigate and figure out the complex land dispute or other nuanced issue that caused a fight.

Because the original cause is often irrelevant. A random spat about land might be what sparks conflict, but ethnic tension is what fuels it and keeps it going. And yes, "ethnic" is a complex word, mixing issues of religion, culture, language, ancestry, "tribe"-level social organization and whatnot. Guess what, these things get mixed up all the time anyway, and having a single word to describe the resulting mess is highly useful. The world is complex. Deal with it.

Re:Why We Banned the Word “Ethnic” (2019) by Retric on Sunday March 13, 2022 @12:14PM (#30662615)
The point is saying ethnic is ambiguous in this context. So using it fails to specify what’s actually going on.

Would you be fine if someone described the troubles in Northern Ireland as ethnic tension, or knowing more about what happened would you use some other description?

Re:Why We Banned the Word “Ethnic” (2019) by zozbot234 on Sunday March 13, 2022 @12:19PM (#30662679)
> Would you be fine if someone described the troubles in Northern Ireland as ethnic tension

Why not? It's a lot more accurate than the usual description of "Protestants and Catholics" while still being simple and clear.

Re:Why We Banned the Word “Ethnic” (2019) by Retric on Sunday March 13, 2022 @01:15PM (#30663382)
> Why not?

Because it wasn’t purely ethnic in nature with Protestants and Catholics on both sides of the conflict. Trying to summarize it as ethic conflict was therefore also also incorrect. Which why using ethic tensions is so often misleading, it seems appropriate in many situations when it really isn’t.

Re:Why We Banned the Word “Ethnic” (2019) by notahacker on Sunday March 13, 2022 @12:34PM (#30662874)
Yep, that's the counter argument right there. Sometimes it's better to be vaguely accurate than precisely missing much of the point.
Re:Why We Banned the Word “Ethnic” (2019) by Retric on Sunday March 13, 2022 @01:20PM (#30663437)
Vaguely accurate is just another way of saying wrong.
Re:Why We Banned the Word “Ethnic” (2019) by notahacker on Sunday March 13, 2022 @01:36PM (#30663657)
No, "vaguely accurate" is a way of avoiding labels which are more precise and wrong. It's better to describe a disputed large quantity with the vague but accurate label of "millions" than choose a random scholar of unknown quality's estimate to 3 s.f as the correct figure.

It's better to summarise the Troubles in Northern Ireland vaguely accurately as "ethnic tensions" than precisely wrongly as a religious war between two schools of Christianity.

Re:Why We Banned the Word “Ethnic” (2019) by Retric on Sunday March 13, 2022 @02:04PM (#30664009)
Saying gas is about 4$ right now is vaguely accurate, of course it’s also wrong. Consider the phrase “not even vaguely accurate” means it’s not just wrong it’s very wrong.

Being vaguely accurate on a history test may give partial credit, but the news should to be held to a higher standard.

Re:Why We Banned the Word “Ethnic” (2019) by helpfulclippy on Sunday March 13, 2022 @12:22PM (#30662716)
I’d like to deal with it. My preferred way to deal with this complexity is to have an information diet that includes sincere attempts to capture this complexity, by reporting what is specifically happening with “ethnic tensions” in Ukraine, or the US, or Xinjiang. These are very different processes that are illuminated through details like, for instance, a “random spat” about land. It sounds like these folks are on the same page.

I can see why an organization that does international journalism would taboo “ethnic tension” on the presumption that there is a lot more to be said in order to capture the events and processed they are reporting on.

Re:Why We Banned the Word “Ethnic” (2019) by logicalmonster on Sunday March 13, 2022 @12:11PM (#30662599)
"The ethnic tension increased. People fought because of ethnic tension. The ethnic tension led to conflict that killed people. The US President denounced the ethnic tension."

Look mom, I'm a journalist now. PayPal me, New York Times.

Re:Why We Banned the Word “Ethnic” (2019) by shadowgovt on Sunday March 13, 2022 @12:13PM (#30662610)
It feels like taking multiple complex overlapping causes and tossing one word on top of them is the opposite of dealing with complexity.

When we debug, do we tell other engineers that we're solving a "software problem," or do we use qualifiers?

Re:Why We Banned the Word “Ethnic” (2019) by zozbot234 on Sunday March 13, 2022 @12:17PM (#30662644)
On the contrary, having multiple levels of description is a key tool in dealing with complexity. You can always provide more information about the actual mix of overlapping causes pertaining to any given case, but that should come after a broader description is provided to frame the overall context.
Re:Why We Banned the Word “Ethnic” (2019) by shadowgovt on Sunday March 13, 2022 @12:28PM (#30662797)
"Software problem" is too broad. If software engineers are working on it, of course it's a software problem.

Analogously, the point the article appears to make is that if humans are involved in a civil war, of course there are ethnic tensions.

Re:Why We Banned the Word “Ethnic” (2019) by dsr_ on Sunday March 13, 2022 @12:30PM (#30662817)
To me, it seems that you are claiming that "ethnic tension" is a pattern of human behavior which is independent of actual circumstances.