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Re:Internet Backbone Giant Lumen Shuns .RU by nickpp on Wednesday March 09, 2022 @11:59AM (#30616843)
And yet it is Russia invading and killing its neighbors as we speak, not the US (which admittedly is quite far from perfect too).

As someone who lived under Soviet occupation, we never had any doubt which one is the evil empire. Joining NATO is just good sense for countries unlucky enough to be geographically close to Russia. One does not just live next to Mordor.

Re:Internet Backbone Giant Lumen Shuns .RU by yucky on Wednesday March 09, 2022 @04:19PM (#30620108)
>Joining NATO is just good sense for countries unlucky enough to be geographically close to Russia.

The issue is for the good of the world, they can't be allowed to join NATO. If the price to pay to avoid WWIII is that Ukraine just doesn't join NATO, that's worth it. It worked for years. Clearly Russia views it as a direct threat, since NATO is really just an extension of the US military.

Re:Internet Backbone Giant Lumen Shuns .RU by nickpp on Thursday March 10, 2022 @03:28AM (#30624560)
The price to stop a madman with nukes and drunk with power increases with time and appeasements. You may hope that sacrificing people and countries now to his insane desires will buy the rest of the world time, but in reality that time will be used in the dictator's favor since he is the one with a terrible purpose: getting to you.

The price to stop Putin in 2014 would've been a local war with NATO losses. The price to stop him now is to risk walking the nuclear line. The price to stop him in another 10 years will be guaranteed nuclear war.

Re:Internet Backbone Giant Lumen Shuns .RU by yucky on Thursday March 10, 2022 @09:51AM (#30627544)
>The price to stop Putin in 2014 would've been a local war with NATO losses.

The price in 2014 was just to not overthrow the democratically elected government in Ukraine, and rewrite the Constitution to change their stance on joining NATO. What is the value in skipping past that part and pretending it doesn't matter?

Re:Internet Backbone Giant Lumen Shuns .RU by nickpp on Thursday March 10, 2022 @12:51PM (#30629987)
Oh you mean the government that won the elections promising to bring Ukraine into Europe, then made a full 180 into Russia's waiting arms - thus proving itself Putin's puppet and betrayer of its people? The same government Putin wants so badly to reinstate that he is willing to bomb women and children for it?!

No, Ukrainians knew why they took it down. Eastern European people are not so easily fooled, we see quite easily through Russian deception and propaganda.

Re:Internet Backbone Giant Lumen Shuns .RU by yucky on Thursday March 10, 2022 @04:25PM (#30632670)
Politicians lie all the time, that doesn't legitimize having a coup. You throw them out at the next election if you don't like how they ran the country. That is how democracy works.
Re:Internet Backbone Giant Lumen Shuns .RU by nickpp on Thursday March 10, 2022 @05:25PM (#30633391)
Invading peaceful countries, bombing innocent women and children and threatening nuclear apocalypse is how Russian "democracy" works.
Re:Internet Backbone Giant Lumen Shuns .RU by yucky on Thursday March 10, 2022 @09:24PM (#30635404)
Many would say the same thing about US democracy, would they not?
Re:Internet Backbone Giant Lumen Shuns .RU by nickpp on Friday March 11, 2022 @01:07AM (#30636845)
Sure they would say it, but none of them would be willing to live under Russian occupation.