News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Thank you Wise for blocking our business account by axg11 on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @10:53AM (#30601262)
Unfortunately NATO has been played into a corner. Sanctions are the only tool that NATO is willing to use right now (alongside lethal aid to Ukraine). What a lot of Western media is overlooking is that this invasion is modestly supported by the Russian population (20-50% depending on which sources you trust). As you said, these same Russians that support the invasion will ultimately blame NATO.

We are gambling that making life more difficult for the average Russian will result in regime change. There is an alternative where sanctions increase popular support for further escalation with NATO and/or Ukraine, in order to result in Ukraine being under the Russian sphere of influence _and_ dropping of sanctions.

Re:Thank you Wise for blocking our business account by prohobo on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @11:45AM (#30602032)
The West has become an incompetent, incomprehensibly stupid bully with a gigantic hammer it calls "market theory". It doesn't so much identify and nullify threats so much as it generates market opinion to blindly hate and blacklist anything not considered "good".

I'm scared of not having a Ukraine flag in my Twitter handle - despite being Polish and supporting Ukranians in the actual conflict - because I'm scared of the zealot Westerners who might try to pillory me for holding unsavory opinions that go against the current marketable beliefs.

I understand how the West is responding and it's not productive, nor is it a "let's wait and see" kind of strategy. This is the same weapon they've been using on everyone else for the past decade. Race, sex, belief, now nationality. It's about turning everything into a market that they control, and we know how people targeted by it react to it. They go cold, MAGA, embrace the antithetical - maybe they even start dropping nukes.

When the current round of Western propaganda fades away, who will Russians blame? Only the ones swallowing it on Twitter will blame Putin. So once that's gone this becomes a huge problem for us.

The plan is to have the propaganda never end. More people now live their lives through the lens of the internet (or internet-first mentality), who have swallowed enough of the insanity that it's no longer a set of sponsored opinions but "reality". It's clear now that the West completely dominates all propaganda on the internet - I barely see any of the Russian stuff. The Russians can't even get a word out, and I'm wondering who the censors are trying to protect. I highly doubt it's us.

What I'm seeing here is the new Western approach to politics in the 21st century. Reality manufacturing and blacklisting, supported by relentless propaganda. The market does the state's dirty work now, and it's constantly hungry for its master's approval, like a big dumb ogre.

The only way to stop the Russian aggression is to negotiate with their government. Not put Russians into camps, metaphorical or otherwise.

EDIT: If you think I'm wrong, then consider the possible influences. Does doing this push Russia to end the invasion, or does it push them to continue it? Does this help us align ourselves with reality and face it, or does it blind us? Is this likely to make the Russians more willing to become allies, or less willing? etc. etc.

Re:Thank you Wise for blocking our business account by 9wzYQbTYsAIc on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @10:08PM (#30610476)
> The West has become an incompetent, incomprehensibly stupid bully with a gigantic hammer it calls "market theory". It doesn't so much identify and nullify threats so much as it generates market opinion to blindly hate and blacklist anything not considered "good".

Ain’t that the truth.

Re:Thank you Wise for blocking our business account by nsv on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @12:10PM (#30602404)
>The only way to stop the Russian aggression is to negotiate with their government.

And get sent to prison? There is no negotiation in a country without free speech.

Re:Thank you Wise for blocking our business account by prohobo on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @12:13PM (#30602457)
I meant that the Western powers should negotiate with Putin.
Re:Thank you Wise for blocking our business account by lolinder on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @02:27PM (#30605122)
We tried that for months in the leadup to the invasion. If Putin wanted to negotiate, he should have negotiated. Instead he played for time by deliberately making demands he knew we couldn't meet.

Why should we assume, after that show, that he'll be reasonable now?

Re:Thank you Wise for blocking our business account by prohobo on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @03:26PM (#30606394)
You always try to negotiate with your enemy, even while shooting at them. It's just a law for succeeding in ending conflict.

The Russians have changed their demands since the conflict started, here they are currently: https://twitter.com/BlessedCloudz/status/1501095011584077826

Re:Thank you Wise for blocking our business account by fineIllregister on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @04:27PM (#30607294)
The Ukranian alliance is negotiating, per your own link.

That Russian negotiating position is not serious. No nation will recognize any concession inconsistent with Ukraine's sovereignty (all three demands are), nor should they. Russia has no leverage to achieve any of those goals, and the longer it goes on, the less they have.

Re:Thank you Wise for blocking our business account by tharne on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @11:54AM (#30602179)
> The plan is to have the propaganda never end.

It's quite scary. While I support the Ukraine, I'm shocked with how little media discussion there is about American hypocrisy on this topic. This certainly in no way excuses Putin's actions, but it's quite amazing how our elected officials can stand there straight-faced shaking their finger in disapproval at Putin after the number of countries we've invaded in my lifetime alone. Good God, I can't even imagine what we'd do if we got into a conflict with Mexico and the Russians we sending them weapons. Oh wait, that happened with Cuba in the 1960's and we threatened to wipe the Soviet Union off the map with nuclear weapons.

Re:Thank you Wise for blocking our business account by rini17 on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @12:00PM (#30602250)
Sure Americans did invade countries and kill civilians and now they act hypocritically.. but on the other side, are there any examples even remotely approaching the hamfisted Russian manners in Chechnya, Syria and Ukraine? Perhaps Israel toward Palestinians but we're talking about USA here.
Re:Thank you Wise for blocking our business account by Andrew_nenakhov on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @12:36PM (#30602824)
Regarding Chechnya, I want to remind you that you are talking about an insurgency that was very used to commit terror attacks on civilians and take hostages to negotiate their terms. Including hundreds of children.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budyonnovsk_hospital_hostage_c...

[2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kizlyar%E2%80%93Pervomayskoye_...

[3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_theater_hostage_crisis

[4]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beslan_school_siege

Re:Thank you Wise for blocking our business account by rini17 on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @12:41PM (#30602908)
So you say leveling whole cities with ground like Grozny is the right response here?
Re:Thank you Wise for blocking our business account by Andrew_nenakhov on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @03:24PM (#30606369)
I am not saying that. What you use is a classical demagogue trick called "strawman fallacy".
Re:Thank you Wise for blocking our business account by rini17 on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @04:23PM (#30607234)
Yes. I am talking about civilian casualties, you strawmanning with insurgents. Or why did you mention them, what is your reasoning? "They killed hundred our children so we kill thousand of theirs?"
Re:Thank you Wise for blocking our business account by Andrew_nenakhov on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @11:53PM (#30611079)
The side that takes children as hostages of the 'other' side is not above using their own civilians as a human shield so people like you would lament their sufferings.

What next, you'll be judgemental about population of Berlin when it was taken from the Nazis?

Re:Thank you Wise for blocking our business account by rini17 on Wednesday March 09, 2022 @04:06AM (#30612413)
So let's not judge the US either. And if you're satisfied with the overall result (like Chechen warlord being #2 man in Russia)...then it's all okay I guess.
Re:Thank you Wise for blocking our business account by tharne on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @07:18PM (#30609323)
The Iraqi people would like a word.

The Vietnamese too.

Re:Thank you Wise for blocking our business account by prohobo on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @12:11PM (#30602418)
I'm not concerned with hypocrisy, we're all hypocrites. My concern is that they didn't even consider dealing with accusations of hypocrisy. They don't care, because the level of politics is so low that I'd start comparing it to tribal warfare. Just get the tribe members riled up to do what we want, no one is going to meaningfully challenge what we do anyway.

They're setting us all up to mindlessly support their reckless "missions". And this shows they're not competent in creating or managing a stable system, and have devolved to the level of small tribes in terms of political thought.