if tanks show up in estonia, latvia and lithuania, will you say 'but they're too small and not worth much?'

you don't have to be the head of intelligence to understand importance of ukraine, even if it isn't technically our job to defend it. Germany, UK and Italy have scored an own goal, as has US policy of russian reset. zero upside, heavy downside, bad trade.

Unfortunately, I'm afraid that that will be exactly the response. If that happens NATO is done for, but the fact that today Germany is one of the two countries that stop stronger sanctions against Russia is a strong sign that Putin will get away with this and more if we let him.

Nothing I disagree with, Germany's reaction is pathetic. I'm also very concerned with Italy, didn't expect that. I hope they'll sort this out. Only thing left.

I don't think NATO survives another decade with the way incentives have realigned for the state members over the last couple of decades.

You may well be right.

NATO is obsolete so that’s good. The triple alliance isn’t anywhere to be found either.

Where do you even get this nonsense?

NATO is now more relevant than ever before.

For who?

Germany has to have its cheap Russian gas, I suppose

Interestingly, that had nothing to do with it.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"

Countries tending to their own border security isn’t a matter of “good” and “evil.” Russia has far more basis for invading a rapidly arming country on its own border than the US did for invading Iraq or Afghanistan or Vietnam or Korea.

"Russia has far more basis for invading a rapidly arming country on its own border than the US did for invading Iraq or Afghanistan or Vietnam or Korea."

Ukraine's attempts to prepare against invasion do not justify said invasion.

Russia has no basis for this at all, hence all the pathetic excuses they've been showering the gullible with.

And yes, it's evil, and no, it has nothing to do with their border security, that's a ridiculous suggestion, in the same vein, you would be ok with Russia annexing Poland, Lithuania, Finland or Estonia because they are armed and bordering Russia.

As for the whataboutism, that wasn't the subject.

A perspective you don't share is ridiculous, so your explanation is "evil"? Maybe, it's more likely that you just don't understand it.

Sure, that must be it. Russia has a perfect right to encroach on whatever territories border their nation because they can't handle having sovereign nations at their borders. And of course after that they get to do it again.

No, it's ridiculous.

Again, something being ridiculous (to you) does not make it evil. And your straw man has nothing to do with my response

MH17 ring a bell? Seriously done with Russia apologists for today.

Call me what you wish, but it's not true. If you're done then log off and stop spamming your replies to every single comment in this thread, and leave some space for any other opinion. You're just ranting

I won't be told to shut up by you or anybody else for that matter, nine years on HN and this is what brings you out to comment with a bunch of disinformation? Pretty clear which side you are on.

That's not the case. But anyway, after a night to clear my head I realize this is an emotional time for everyone, and I'm sorry for stirring you up. I was reacting to my own things. I definitely don't support this war, nor any further bloodshed. I wish for peace, and peace to you as well. Have a good day

I'm happy calling initiating a completely preventable conflict that nobody wanted that has resulted in the deaths of 137, 17 of whom are Ukrainian civilians, and 316 wounded evil. There's no meaningful moral difference between what Putin did and outright murdering 17 people. He knew innocent Ukrainians (and, for that matter, innocent Russians) would die and didn't care.

Well that’s not how anything works. E.g. how many babies might be saved by Russian economic development from having access to the sea through Ukraine? At this scale the moral calculus isn’t easy.

Of all the disgusting comments this really takes the cake.

Russian economic development through war doesn't save Russian babies, it will kill them.

War has led to plenty of development through history, and development saves babies. Do you think Italy or Germany would have been better off as bickering principalities, without Giribaldi or Bismarck? Do you think China would have been better off as a bunch of warring states?

So we got it wrong with the sanctions then. We should actually be providing economic stimulus to Russia right now

We shouldn’t be economically sanctioning countries that aren’t threatening us directly. It causes tremendous suffering and death, e.g. in Iran: https://mcgillbusinessreview.com/articles/the-human-cost-of-...

I agree on Iran but this is different. We could have sold steel and fuel to the Germans and Japanese in WW2, but we didn’t because they were engaged in something evil.

The Germans were engaged in the holocaust, which was evil. The Russians are invading a sovereign country to replace the government, which the US has done twice in as many decades.

A country on Russia’s border massing weapons isn’t a border security issue?

Massing weapons in what sense? Not in any way that poses a threat to Russia, and the reason they were increasing their arms is because of the obvious threat Russia poses to them.

What is so weird about these things: every time you read a history book you go like 'Oh, I recognize that', and then it plays out exactly the same. This whole wave of isolationism and so called neutrality was an important factor in why WWII went as far as it did, if the world had stood united against Hitler/Germany from day #1 he would have had not nearly gone as far.

Not everything is an analogy to WWII.