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Re:The Curious Life and Mind-Altering Death of Justin Clark by nabla9 on Thursday February 24, 2022 @06:44AM (#30453638)
>New York City medical examiner determined recently that his heart gave out from a fatal combination of ketamine, oxycodone, and 3 HO-PCP, a bespoke hallucinogen.
Re:The Curious Life and Mind-Altering Death of Justin Clark by netizen-936824 on Thursday February 24, 2022 @07:26AM (#30453883)
I think its a bit disingenuous to call the PCP analogs "hallucinogens"

They're NMDA antagonists primarily, the same primary mechanism as ketamine. They're dissociatives

Re:The Curious Life and Mind-Altering Death of Justin Clark by briHass on Thursday February 24, 2022 @09:02AM (#30454744)
That's a strange technicality to get hung up on. "Hallucinogens" are perhaps a broad class of psychotropic drugs, of which dissociative anesthetics are a part. A laptop is still a computer.

From Wikipedia's definition: "A hallucinogen is a psychoactive agent that often or ordinarily causes hallucinations, perceptual anomalies, and other substantial subjective changes in thought, emotion, and consciousness that are not typically experienced to such degrees with other drug classifications."

The traditional dissociatives definitely would classify as changing your thoughts and consciousness.

Re:The Curious Life and Mind-Altering Death of Justin Clark by netizen-936824 on Thursday February 24, 2022 @10:21AM (#30455682)
>changing your thoughts and consciousness

This is extremely broad, in that case cigarettes are hallucinogens. Nicotine is a psychoactive substance, it absolutely alters though patterns and consciousness.

>often or ordinarily causes hallucinations, perceptual anomalies, and other substantial subjective changes in thought, emotion, and consciousness that are not typically experienced to such degrees with other drug classifications

I think you left out an important part of the stated definition, this also says "and" rather than "or". I think that "dissociative" is a more accurate classification the the compounds' primary effects seen at the majority of doses.

I mention in another comment in this thread why I think it is a poor classification, please refer to that message for my argument.

Re:The Curious Life and Mind-Altering Death of Justin Clark by 0des on Thursday February 24, 2022 @08:32AM (#30454425)
Its more akin to taking DXM than mushrooms or something more visual
Re:The Curious Life and Mind-Altering Death of Justin Clark by netizen-936824 on Thursday February 24, 2022 @08:53AM (#30454649)
Yes, I'm aware. I would also not call dxm a hallucinogen. It only produces hallucinations at pretty high doses, the hallucinations are secondary to the dissociative state.
Re:The Curious Life and Mind-Altering Death of Justin Clark by 0des on Thursday February 24, 2022 @09:13AM (#30454892)
Hallucinogens is a category that encompasses more than just chemicals that produce visual and auditory aberrations.
Re:The Curious Life and Mind-Altering Death of Justin Clark by netizen-936824 on Thursday February 24, 2022 @10:16AM (#30455628)
I personally think it's poor to classify something on an attribute that it only expresses a fraction of the time. Classifications should be made on primary attributes that are expressed the majority of the time, that helps with communicating about what's being classified.

Calling something a hallucinogen, while true a portion of the time, gives people who are unfamiliar the impression that it produces hallucinations most of the time, which it does not.

Re:The Curious Life and Mind-Altering Death of Justin Clark by lewispollard on Thursday February 24, 2022 @12:51PM (#30457855)
I've never tried pcp or its analogues, but ketamine was a potent hallucinagen for me - at a high enough dose.

I would generally agree that calling it (or an analogue of it with a similar profile) a (bespoke) hallucinagen in an article isn't very accurate though. I was fascinated by the hallucinations that ketamine induced in me, and sought them out, but they were actually quite unreliable to attain and seemed to require a very specific dose range and set/setting.