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Re:Estonia, allies to trigger NATO Article 4 by baby on Thursday February 24, 2022 @02:21AM (#30451670)
World wars start from something small. Not saying this is it, but there are all the reasons to be concerned about today’s events.
Re:Estonia, allies to trigger NATO Article 4 by darebak on Thursday February 24, 2022 @02:27AM (#30451728)
I don't think that any of the world wars started out of small things, can you clarify?
Re:Estonia, allies to trigger NATO Article 4 by selfhoster11 on Thursday February 24, 2022 @02:38AM (#30451822)
World War 1 started because a guy was assassinated, for one. The tension was there, but the assassination was what set everything into motion.
Re:Estonia, allies to trigger NATO Article 4 by polotics on Thursday February 24, 2022 @02:55AM (#30451937)
Many historical analysis of the start of WW1 highlight the slow communication and mobilization processes as the main cause of why European military leaders thought they had to move first, just in case the other side had already started and they hadn't heard... Another way to see it is that oligarchies of the time thought it expedient to have yet another 19th century war, and didn't factor in advances in technology: machine guns, artillery, chemical warfare... A bit like with drones and AI now: the outcome and shape of the Ukraine conflict wil inform us all of the specific bloody taste of 21st century resource wars. To anyone reading this in countries dependent on Ukrainian wheat imports (eg. North-Africa) Stock up on the pasta!
Re:Estonia, allies to trigger NATO Article 4 by gattilorenz on Thursday February 24, 2022 @02:57AM (#30451957)
"a guy" to describe the future emperor of the Austria-Hungary is an understatement. It's like saying that the world was shocked because in 1963 a guy was shot. Yes, technically true, but...
Re:Estonia, allies to trigger NATO Article 4 by ricardobayes on Thursday February 24, 2022 @03:16AM (#30452130)
Yes. Tough to believe, but Austria-Hungary had the biggest army in the world, at the time.
Re:Estonia, allies to trigger NATO Article 4 by selfhoster11 on Thursday February 24, 2022 @04:04PM (#30460254)
I deliberately phrased it this way. Yes, he was an important guy. But ultimately, just a normal guy, like the rest of us.
Re:Estonia, allies to trigger NATO Article 4 by oblio on Thursday February 24, 2022 @03:02AM (#30452004)
The assassination was a pretext.

Austria-Hungary had been thinking about invading Serbia for decades.

I dislike this historical view where the little guy is blamed.

Re:Estonia, allies to trigger NATO Article 4 by floodle on Thursday February 24, 2022 @03:15AM (#30452116)
You are agreeing with OP here.

OP's point is that an act can seem small on the surface ("a guy got assassinated") but triggered a larger war because there are greater tensions and forces at play ("Austria-Hungary had been thinking about invading Serbia for decades").

Re:Estonia, allies to trigger NATO Article 4 by jb1991 on Thursday February 24, 2022 @02:39AM (#30451834)
Re:Estonia, allies to trigger NATO Article 4 by sofixa on Thursday February 24, 2022 @02:49AM (#30451895)
The original "world war", the Seven Years War, started over some useless land in North America and then became global over Silesia, both of which are rather small things.

WWI started over an assassination that barely happened, and WWII over a city ( Danzig, although it's fairly certain Hitler wouldn't have stopped there, like WWI would have happened anyways).

Re:Estonia, allies to trigger NATO Article 4 by hef19898 on Thursday February 24, 2022 @04:03AM (#30452506)
WW1 was a war everyone wanted (partially due to the dismantling of Bismarck's complex systems of alliances). Austria-Hungary wanted Serbia (and looked for an excuse), Prussia thought war against Russia was inevitable (no idea if that's true or not) and that such a war couldn't be won by Prussia once Russia started to modernize (kind of true, as Prussia utterly defeated Russia in WW1 and Germany was utterly defeated by Russia in WW2) and thus wanted a war against Russia now. Some French wanted revanche for the war 1870. Italy had some territorial interests against Austria-Hungary. And everyone came from a world were those wars were normal (as bad as the Napoleonic wars were, they were mostly fought between armies and less severe on civilians, and decided by decisive battles with treaties after those). Everyone thought they could easily win, and fast. The trope "it's over by Christmas" comes from that period.

WW2 so, was different. That was, from the beginning, Hitler's idea. He wanted it, he took what he could without a war, and then with a war. All with the goal of defeating Russia and exterminate the Jews (and all other undesirables). Everything else was just excuses, and thinly vailed ones at that.

Re:Estonia, allies to trigger NATO Article 4 by bendhoefs on Thursday February 24, 2022 @02:38AM (#30451827)
I'm reminded of a dead archduke and burning Reichstag...
Re:Estonia, allies to trigger NATO Article 4 by hnarn on Thursday February 24, 2022 @02:56AM (#30451948)
Surely you’re not insinuating that the fire at the Reichstag was the cause of WW2
Re:Estonia, allies to trigger NATO Article 4 by bendhoefs on Thursday February 24, 2022 @03:01AM (#30452003)
Well, bad example, but it was a key event.