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Re:No minimum parking requirements? No problem for Fayettevi... by lamontcg on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @05:48PM (#30447671)
> You will eventually get hit by someone posting selfies on instagram or playing their friends in wordle.

You will eventually get hit by someone who punishment passes you and is dangerously negligent because they've dehumanized you, and they just don't care if they do violence to you, and its you're fault because you're slow.

Or you will get hit by people who simply don't register bikes and consciously or unconsciously think that bicyclists must yield to cars, sometimes turning left in front of you with no time for you to stop.

Or you will get right hooked by someone who just passed you a second earlier and that is too long for their minds to track the fact that you're still there, or they again think they're entitled to drive however they want and you need to yield to whatever they do.

Re:No minimum parking requirements? No problem for Fayettevi... by WalterBright on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @06:00PM (#30447833)
I bought a dashcam for my car because of bicyclists:

1. randomly wandering out of the bike lane and into the car lane

2. stopped in the middle of the car lane around a blind curve

3. drafting 3 feet behind the panel truck in front of them at 40 mph

4. riding two or three abreast, with the 2 or 3 well into the car lane

5. continuing to cycle at 25 mph in the right hand bike lane while the traffic is going much slower, and there's a right hand turn coming up (it's difficult to spot these bikers while driving, heck, even cars are hard to see there which is why overtaking on the right is illegal)

None of these incidents were kids on bikes, they were all middle aged adults who really should know better.

I talked to a couple of these cyclists (in their tour de france outfits, naturally) once, and they laughed and said if they get hit by a car it'll be their big payday lawsuit. I replied getting crippled isn't worth a billion dollars.

Ride defensively, folks, regardless of what the law says or who is at fault.

Re:No minimum parking requirements? No problem for Fayettevi... by lamontcg on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @11:42PM (#30450369)
I never did any of those things back when I was bike commuting and I still got punishment passed regularly and had drivers turn left in front of me when I had the right of way nearly causing collisions (when I was wearing a glaringly bright yellow jacket).

I also never saw any other bicyclists on my commute do anything particularly dangerous or come near to causing collisions. I saw a few of them brake the law, but I saw a lot of cars break the laws as well.

The last time I think I saw a truly dangerous bicyclist was probably 10 years ago when some idiot blew a 4 way hauling ass after coming down a hill and given a minute one way or the other I would have killed him.

I really need to get a dashcam because of all the bad drivers out there though. Just the level of tailgating at highway speeds out there is fucking insanity, with every other driver convinced that their testicles will shrivel up if someone changes lanes in front of them.

Re:No minimum parking requirements? No problem for Fayettevi... by foxyv on Friday February 25, 2022 @02:22PM (#30471084)
It's not a car lane. It's just a lane. There are tractors, construction vehicles, children crossing or playing street hockey, horse drawn carriages, broken down vehicles, construction workers, neighborhood electric vehicles and bicycles which are all allowed to use them.

As an operator of a motor vehicle, it is my responsibility to not endanger or injure other road users. It drives people nuts usually, but I take it seriously. I stop at stop signs and red lights. I take turns slowly. I don't pass in an un-safe manner. I drive slower. Cyclists riding like idiots doesn't really bother me because it doesn't really HURT me in any way. They aren't the ones driving multi-ton machines.

Re:No minimum parking requirements? No problem for Fayettevi... by mindslight on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @06:27PM (#30448140)
Comments like yours are exactly why I'm somewhat predisposed against bike lanes - there is no such thing as a "car lane".

By all means yes, get a dashcam. The more evidence, the better. While driving, I've had a few cyclists come around around blind corners going the wrong way. Any type of road user can be an idiot. But the main commonality of your list is people clashing with your own personal expectations. Don't assume that evidence of such will exculpate you (eg #2).

Re:No minimum parking requirements? No problem for Fayettevi... by olyjohn on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @07:49PM (#30448909)
These arguments between drivers and bikes are stupid.

Bikers ride like shit all the time. Drivers drive like shit all the time. Hell, pedestrians do stupid shit all the time too. Nobody is in some superior transportation group.

None of them know the actual rules of the road, and all assume they are correct and the ones in the right. You do any one of these things long enough, you'll see the stupid things the others do.

Re:No minimum parking requirements? No problem for Fayettevi... by WalterBright on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @06:45PM (#30448314)
I expect them to follow the rules. They don't. I'm aware they don't, so I am pretty vigilant of their expectation that they are exempt from common sense.

I took a class in performance driving once. The central rule there is to "be predictable", as that's how accidents are avoided at 200 mph when you're 2 feet off of someone else's bumper.

It's a lesson I took to heart in my everyday driving, and I wish that principle was taught regularly to other drivers, and that cyclists would have a clue about it.

Re:No minimum parking requirements? No problem for Fayettevi... by II2II on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @08:15PM (#30449129)
Not following the rules is an issue for all road users. So yes, having that dashcam is a good thing. Getting it because of cyclists is prejudiced.

It is also worth noting that motorists sometimes create the problems themselves. I try to stick to traffic regulations while on a bike since, as you say, being predictable is important. (In fact, it's something that a lot of cyclists in my neck of the woods preach.) Then you get a driver who tries to wave a cyclist waiting to make a left turn through when they have the right of way. No thank you. I have no plans on being road kill because the motorist is trying to be nice, and the guy behind him decides to pass on the right.

Unfortunately, tonnes of situations like that pop up. Stopping for pedestrians when they have the right of way can be quite scary. I have had pedestrians to the right thing (push the button, wait to cross), I've stopped, and the car behind me decides to race through. They had plenty of time to stop. I know because I always do a shoulder check before stopping for pedestrians. Not doing so can be fatal. I have had motorists get angry at me for stopping for pedestrians in intersections where pedestrians had the right of way under similar circumstances.

I realize that this is by no means a one way relationship. Some cyclists are idiots, either taking to many risks or by being to timid. Both result in unpredictability. I also realize that the behaviour of some motorists and some cyclists may be due to a "bad day". Let's face it, some people have to be on their bikes or in their cars even if they know they are unable to be fully attentive.

I also realize that there are many incentives to behave properly on the roads because bad behaviour can have nasty consequences. Unfortunately, it often feels as though a lot of drivers failed basic physics and don't understand their larger mass and higher speeds gives them a great deal more kinetic energy.

Re:No minimum parking requirements? No problem for Fayettevi... by WalterBright on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @08:51PM (#30449340)
> Getting it because of cyclists is prejudiced

Let's explore the prejudice angle.

Not long ago in Seattle, a truck driver was going down a street under the speed limit, passing a line of cars all parked along the side of the road. As he approached a crosswalk, a cyclist suddenly was in the crosswalk, and the driver was unable to stop in time and smacked him, killing him.

The driver was slapped with a huge lawsuit, on the grounds that the cyclist was in a crosswalk.

Fortunately for the driver, there were many eyewitnesses who attested that the cyclist suddenly turned and angled into the crosswalk at high speed. The view of the approaches to the crosswalk were hidden by the parked cars. The driver was judged not at fault, yet there was still a hew and cry in the paper to hang him.

The driver was pre-judged as guilty, and had to prove his innocence. Without several eyewitnesses testifying in his defense, there's no doubt what the outcome would have been.

Hence I have a dashcam.

> it often feels as though a lot of drivers failed basic physics and don't understand their larger mass and higher speeds gives them a great deal more kinetic energy.

And the cyclists need to understand that cars have larger mass and higher speeds and are less maneuverable and have less 360 visibility, hence should not assume that the drivers can see and avoid the cyclist. For their own safety. I do not understand adults failing to look after themselves.

Re:No minimum parking requirements? No problem for Fayettevi... by II2II on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @10:23PM (#30449840)
Have you even been in a bus garage? It's basically yellow lines painted everywhere, and associated safety rules around them. They let staff know where buses are supposed to drive, where they are stored, where the pits and hoists are, and so on. If staff ignore the rules, the staff are disciplined. If management tells the staff to ignore the rules, management is disciplined. Heavy machinery has to be dealt with respect, both sides can break the rules, and neither side is presumed to be of blame. Well, at least ideally. If all of that was tossed aside, we would be back to the factory days of a century ago. Lives were lost simply because certain lives were disposable, at least in the eyes of many factory owners. Incidentally, the disposable lives were not those of the factory owners.

Like I said, I understand why you have a dashcam. It can be a valuable tool to prove your innocence should the need arise. The thing I take issue with is the presumed guilt of cyclists. Yes, there are times when cyclists are to blame. On the other hand, there are times when motorists are to blame. Those circumstances are common since most cyclists realize that they are the ones who are going to die. A lot of motorists don't seem to have the realization that they are the ones who can take lives. At least in the moment.

Here are some things that I have encountered as a cyclist:

- I have been in a hit-and-run. The impact was hard enough that I chunk of their car was broken off in the accident and loud enough that people could hear the crash in their houses. Witnesses said there was no way the driver could have not noticed they hit someone, yet they left me for dead. That is not how you treat another human being. I don't know who is to blame here since visibility may have been an issue, though I was following traffic laws to the letter, but the police said the driver's behaviour after the fact was likely the product of drunk driving.

- I have been intentionally hit by a driver. At least that is the only way I can explain it since they were stopped behind me at a red light and decided to go straight through me while I was waiting for an opening to make a left turn. Yes, I was signalling. Again, a hit and run. The police did not want to deal with it.

- The right hook is famous amongst cyclists. Believe it or not, these aren't always the result of cyclists passing to the right. I never pass to the right since I realize that many motorists don't signal turns. (I cannot predict what they will do, so I don't know when it is safe to pass.) Then there is the visibility factor that you mentioned. Yet vehicles will pass me and turn across me on a regular basis. I have even had that happen when the vehicle is in another lane.

- I have had vehicles make left turns from behind me because they are impatient and had poor judgment on the speed of oncoming traffic. I have seen several near collisions between two automobiles because of that, and it places me as a cyclist at greater risk.

- Certain groups of people like to distract cyclists. I'm not talking about people honking or screaming expletives here. I'm talking about people screaming absolutely nonsensical things at me in an attempt to pull my attention from the road.

I'm not bringing up these examples to say that motorists are always to blame. I know they aren't. I've certainly had my sloppy days on the road, though, ironically, those seem to be the times when I had the fewest issues. I'm bringing it up because there are plenty of times when large bundles of kinetic energy aren't following the law and are endangering people's lives. I'm not saying this is because your veering cyclist should avoid the blame. Most of the cyclists I know would frown upon such behaviour even if there wasn't an accident. I'm saying it because there are all too many cases where motorists seem to believe they are never to blame, even when they are not paying attention to the rules of the road themselves, or they make a bad judgment call, or even when they are acting in malice. It's like that because they have no skin to loose in the game (or, at least, not as much).

Re:No minimum parking requirements? No problem for Fayettevi... by WalterBright on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @11:21PM (#30450230)
I am not presuming the guilt of cyclists. I am objecting to the presumed guilt of the driver. I am for assigning guilt fairly based on the evidence. That is why I got a dash cam.
Re:No minimum parking requirements? No problem for Fayettevi... by 8note on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @06:52PM (#30448388)
I think you mean becausr if bicyle infrastructure rather than bicyclists.

Those are all problems with the road, and not limited to bicycles. Eg. I see cars overtake on the right all the time

Re:No minimum parking requirements? No problem for Fayettevi... by WalterBright on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @07:18PM (#30448637)
> I think you mean becausr if bicyle infrastructure rather than bicyclists.

Nope. I thought I was pretty clear. There's no sane reason to park in the middle of the road around a blind corner. Or draft. Or wander randomly in and out of the bike lane into traffic.

> I see cars overtake on the right all the time

It's still illegal, and for good reason.

Re:No minimum parking requirements? No problem for Fayettevi... by seanmcdirmid on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @09:47PM (#30449648)
> It's still illegal, and for good reason.

Not in every state, not every context:

https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=46.61.115

For bikes it is even more nuanced (in my state):

https://www.dugganbikelaw.com/perilous-passing-on-the-right