News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:You have two jobs (2017) by bluedino on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @10:15AM (#30347493)
> One of the most effective engineers I worked with spent her first month here very intentionally taking every single one of her new co-workers out to coffee

I've heard of companies assigning people to walks. The idea is you go for a 20 minute walk with a random person (until you've gone with everyone), and you're supposed to talk about your job and how its going etc etc. You're also getting a break from the office, some fresh air, and some physical activity.

Re:You have two jobs (2017) by Benjammer on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @10:48AM (#30348035)
I've worked at multiple places that implemented weekly "Donut Buddies" (https://www.donut.com/) and I think it's amazing. It never felt forced, let alone "infantilizing." The truly socially anxious people could just opt out by leaving the Slack channel for it so they wouldn't be assigned a buddy anymore. I found it amazing for building relationships around the company.

I'm at a tiny startup right now as an engineer, not mgr, and I have weekly 1:1s with every other member of our team. Especially now during remote work, it's a godsend for getting to know teammates.

Re:You have two jobs (2017) by tylerjdurden on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @10:37AM (#30347851)
Contrary to some of the negative replies this comment is receiving, just wanted to add that I've had new coworkers do this very thing to introduce themselves to me, and I found it a great way to get to know someone new and develop a nice working relationship with them.
Re:You have two jobs (2017) by dvtrn on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @10:46AM (#30347992)
I had a job once that put new employees through a scavenger hunt that took us all over HQ. The secret benefit of it was not only to get to know people, but you had specific onboarding tasks to do that would also serve as a way of getting introduced to people.

"Go meet Jake on the 3rd floor". Some you had to do in sequential order, but other than that, we were turned loose to roam the halls, take the elevator/stairs and solve the hunt in whatever order we wanted over the course of about a week.

Turns out, Jake is the person who also handles payroll and direct deposit. You'd stop by, do your payroll stuff, have a little "getting to know you chat", he'd put his initials next to his spot on your scavenger hunt sheet, and give you a clue to how to find the next name or hunt item on the list. All of them directly related to something you would have had to do anyway to get 'onboarded' as a new employee.

It was fun, it was engaging, but it was also highly useful and germane to the usually boring tasks of "fill out this form to get paid, now fill out this one to get insurance, now this one for..."

Re:You have two jobs (2017) by compiler-guy on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @10:29AM (#30347715)
This would drive me crazy. I get along fine with practically everyone, and do pretty well to be easy to work with, but random twenty minute walks with random coworkers would make me feel trapped and awkward. I’m a terrible conversationalist and if I get paired with someone similar it would be twenty minutes of torture.
Re:You have two jobs (2017) by Benjammer on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @10:54AM (#30348126)
If you have a condition like Asperger's or Autism then I apologize, I don't mean to be insensitive. But, if you have run-of-the-mill social anxiety and/or shyness, then I think time-boxed, scheduled, regular conversations with your co-workers can be just about the best format for practicing your conversation skills that I could think of. I think if you tried to put effort in, you might be able to make more progress than you think you can. Think of it like any other skill you need to practice and develop for work. This isn't a purely social situation, you don't need to be best friends with these people. It's just about practicing your ability to pretend to be a socially confident person in business settings when called for. And to learn about your co-workers personalities so that you can be a more effective and empathetic teammate.
Re:You have two jobs (2017) by compiler-guy on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @12:20PM (#30349467)
Sure, it's possible that if I put in the effort and practiced I could get better at conversation, and this might be a good venue for doing it.

But if I put in the effort, I could also be a much better artist. Or a much better cook, and there are plenty of venues that would be good for it.

I get along fine with my coworkers. In all the horrible peer-judging that goes on in Google performance reviews, "Hard to work with" almost never comes up for me. Nor does, "doesn't know what is going on". Nor does, "I wish they would be more socially confident."

I get along just fine. But enforced social time with people who I'm not doing projects with? No thanks. I'll do my job, communicate about my job in the standups and whatever normal checkins we have.

Fortunately, my skills are in high enough demand that if a role puts more social demands on me, I can just bail for another team or company. It's nice that way.

Re:You have two jobs (2017) by shard on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @03:01PM (#30351849)
Do people give comments on social skills in Google performance reviews? I wouldn't unless it was drastically lacking or causing problems. I wouldn't call anyone out if they are slightly awkward, doesn't make proper eye contact when talking, doesn't pick up on cues that the other person is bored, talks a bit too loud or too long, talks mostly about themselves, doesn't talk about anything else besides work, or doesn't talk unless talked to. None of these affect performance, but the lack of skill just groups the person into the socially awkward group. Not saying that the 20 minutes walks would cure that, of course.

Now, regarding social time with people I'm not doing projects with, I'm all for that, since information does not always flow freely within a company, and talking to people on adjacent projects could lead to new knowledge or collaborations, or at least be set up for such. It's also good if you become a hub of information for other teams, as that increases your value to yours and the teams you talk to. Information is power :)

Of course, as you said, you have to weigh this against other skills you can spend time on, it all depends on what you want from your career. If you desire to move up the hierarchy, soft skills such as this will grow in importance, as your work shifts from being neck-deep in technical details, to negotiations with other teams on how to achieve large initiatives. It's easier to catch someone's ear to talk about something you'd like to get done when they have a positive social impression of you.

Re:You have two jobs (2017) by compiler-guy on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @03:33PM (#30352272)
All of this is possible without forced 1-1 walks with people I don't know.

For example, Google has dozens of interest-based groups, some of which I go and participate regularly and positively (not going to give too many details here), and get plenty of gossip from that. I participate in several job-adjacent team chats, where I learn about projects and contribute where I can.

One of my best interactions came from seeing an old teammate in an MK and they had a problem that we talked about. That was great and fun and interesting, and built plenty of social capital. But we had something to you know, actually talk about instead of make work.

Not everyone wants to move up the hierarchy--doing perf as an IC is painful enough. Doing it as manager would make me want to stab myself. ICs become less and less common as the level increases.

Re:You have two jobs (2017) by Benjammer on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @02:24PM (#30351359)
You do you man, but this idea of "I get paid to code, and I only do enough emotional labor to get my code merged and not get dinged on perf reviews," leads to a lot of the issues I have with working in big tech, personally. Maybe that's just me though.
Re:You have two jobs (2017) by compiler-guy on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @02:28PM (#30351418)
Don't confuse "Hates hanging out in forced one-on-one social situations" with "Only does enough emotional labor to get code merged and not get dinged on perf reviews."

They are different things. I help people who need help, comment on design docs, and wish people happy birthday, have a good vacation and whatnot.

Required strolling with random people or going to lunch is not the same thing.

You do you too. If you love those things, great! Not everyone does.

Re:You have two jobs (2017) by Benjammer on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @02:36PM (#30351517)
I think you might benefit from examining how bias can take over when you only do emotional labor on an ad-hoc, unplanned, unstructured basis.
Re:You have two jobs (2017) by compiler-guy on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @02:46PM (#30351658)
I don't believe that forced one-on-one conversations are the only way to accomplish this.

You should consider how assuming, "Everyone works like I do, and can benefit from the same things I like" may be biasing you against people who don't think or act like you, or are not emotionally rewarded by the same things you are.

Don't know how many different firms you have worked for, or how many different groups you are in, but I have worked in enough different positions with enough different teams in enough different roles to know that this style works awfully well for me. And given the various successful projects I've been a part of (not all, of course), I'm reasonably sure that this style hasn't held me or the teams back.

Re:You have two jobs (2017) by Benjammer on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @03:30PM (#30352233)
Congrats on your perceived success! I tried to use softer words like "might," and I explicitly said "maybe this is just me," in order to not assume anything. It appears you took my language in a different tone than I intended, and are now turning this into more of an argument than any sort of discussion, so I'm going to take my leave and move on.
Re:You have two jobs (2017) by jmoreno94 on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @10:31AM (#30347751)
I would quit. That's so infantilizing. We're adults we don't need these hand holdy forced "team building" ice breakers. Just let us work together and I promise we'll get to know each other as much as we need to to get the job done.
Re:You have two jobs (2017) by codingdave on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @11:58AM (#30349134)
I have not found that to be true, at all. Quite the contrary, I've seen that when there is no forced team building, people only get to know each other to a minimal level. They do not build trust, they do not learn each others strengths and thereby put a heavier weigh on people's weaknesses. A small mistake by a coworker can become "That guy sucks, can't wait 'til he gets fired or leaves", and small cliques and camps end up developing across teams. It can become quite dysfunctional, quite fast.

Of course, in a way this means I agree with you - if you are not someone who wants to be on a team that spends time and energy on the warm and fuzzy team building tasks... quitting probably is the right move. There will be other teams that work better for you.

Re:You have two jobs (2017) by paulryanrogers on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @12:22PM (#30349504)
I've heard this is why 360 reviews can be flawed. With limited interaction coworkers may only see a small slice of a person's performance, possibly the worst/best.
Re:You have two jobs (2017) by Benjammer on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @02:32PM (#30351470)
Heaven forbid anyone asks you to do any explicit emotional labor in addition to technical labor! The horror!

"I get paid to write code, not to be a human!!!!"

It's pretty obvious the bias here if you flip things. We all know that both emotional labor and physical/technical labor are required to get the job done. If you said everyone would only be rated on hard metrics around their social abilities, and the programming would be left up to whatever each person feels like, it would lead to technical chaos. I doubt anyone would say, "That's so infantilizing. We're professional programmers we don't need these hand holdy forced "engineering architecture" meetings. Just let us code together and I promise we'll build the product the right way, and on time."

In the same way, if you don't explicitly plan and architect the culture at your company, it can lead to similar chaotic situations. People only associate organically based on similar background, similar interests, similar personality, etc. This leads to basically every single bias that everyone not a white/asian straight man has been screaming about for decades in tech.

Re:You have two jobs (2017) by paulryanrogers on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @12:21PM (#30349473)
Being paid to take a walk and talk to some people seems reasonable to me. So long as they don't expect me to stay late to "make up for lost time" while doing the exercise.
Re:You have two jobs (2017) by csours on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @10:45AM (#30347982)
Are recurring manager 1x1s also infantilizing?
Re:You have two jobs (2017) by odshoifsdhfs on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @11:32AM (#30348702)
Yes. A million times yes.

I have talked about this before here, but I don't really understand this idea companies have about promoting/demanding social things at work, or having a dedicated 1:1 block with managers. Are developers so social awkward that you need to have someone higher up blocking time for you to talk with people/managers?

Whenever I have an issue with my work/company I just do a 'hey, when do you have 5 minutes, need to have a chat about something' message and then talk with the manager/person about it. These 5 minutes chats have been as small as 'want to spend some time with my kid so will take a couple long weekends' to 'i am not a good fit for this company, so I will be resigning by end of day'. Never had to have it scheduled like I am a fucking 5 year old that needs an adult to time box his life.

Re:You have two jobs (2017) by paulryanrogers on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @12:25PM (#30349564)
As I understand it the scheduled 1:1s can provide a release valve for employees who get so focused and heads down they neglect interpersonal relationships or concerns. They're meant to avoid the problem of emotions being bottled up too long then exploding. Can also help to batch concerns so there aren't constant interruptions for minor things that can be addressed later.

Obviously it's not a perfect approach as one cannot force candor or trust, and frequency must be tuned to the needs of everyone involved.