I feel like people say this and then don't provide any decent examples. iPhones hold value and are usable much longer than most Androids thanks to Apple's willingness to support the devices.
HN loves to hate on Apple but I don't find these examples and arguments very compelling.
Really? How much? If you use your iPhone for two years, what would be the TCO?
> are usable much longer
Fairphone is supporting their devices for 5 years at a minimum. They promised 7 years for their latest model. And the Fairphone (who has the burden of promoting ethical manuafacturing, using only fair-sourced materials and fair pay to all their workers) still comes at less than half the price of the iPhone.
Or say that you don't care about ethics and you just want your devices to be as cheap as possible. You can buy "budget premium" Androids (Moto Gs, Nokia 6/7) that are very serviceable for less than €200. The Nokia I bought in end-2018 would still be in use today if I hadn't gone to /e/OS, so €180 bought 4 years of "phone". Economically speaking, there is no way that an Apple device can beat that.
One is a device made by a company with a minimal ethical standard, which is not willing to sacrifice those for profits.
The other is a trillion-dollar company that manages to convince billions of people world-wide that their products will make them smarter/more creative/just like the good guy on TV shows. This image and feel-good ads also gets them to convince people that is totally fine to pay hundreds/thousands of dollars to upgrade their devices while talking about "social good", "climate-conscious" and every fucking talking point of the "progressive/anti-capitalist" millenials. IOW, all the feel-good talk about issues gives them enough cover to get to exploit mass-scale consumerism.
I wonder how they do that? Perhaps it's this thing called "marketing"?
These are really interesting and I hadn't seen them before thanks!
Second, how was it that banks managed to operate for centuries and now there is the idea that people simply can not live without a mobile banking app?
Third, minority rule[0]: the best way to make sure that we can see apps being develop for other platforms (not just KaiOS, but Linux devices and even ungoogled AOSP-based systems) is for us to cultivate the intolerant minorities who simply will refuse to run iOS/Android.
Convenience is nice, but freedom is much better.
[0]: https://medium.com/incerto/the-most-intolerant-wins-the-dict...
Monzo comes to mind. Also possibly Revolut and Starling.
> people simply can not live without a mobile banking app?
The idea isn't that I'm not capable of banking without an app. An app offers concrete advantages such as being able to view your current account balance in real time, and view the amount of recent transactions. This lets you keep a handle on spending, possibly help with making ends meet if you are a student living on their own, or in poverty. Sure you can do it by hand, but only the most dedicated did it because it's a significant effort.
> cultivate the intolerant minorities who simply will refuse to run iOS/Android.
Good luck with that. I tried the dumbphone lifestyle, but ultimately not running Android or iOS will cut you off from basic services like Uber or public transit navigation/timetables (unless you are lucky), group chats with family and friends, and basic conveniences like said mobile banking.
> Convenience is nice, but freedom is much better.
With all due respect, no. We all have a threshold where it's just not worth it. I am not Stallman and I am not willing to put up with this much pain (or to rope my family and friends into my crusade by demanding they accede to my idea of "mobile purity").
Do you really need that? Did you ever get into a situation where you couldn't wait to see your bank statement? Couldn't you wait to get to an ATM or just get home to see in your computer?
How much of the things that are sold to us are really necessary? To get back to the topic: how much of the modern world is driven by manufactured demand?
> Sure you can do it by hand, but only the most dedicated did it because it's a significant effort.
False dichotomy. Plenty of budgeting/accounting software out there (free software, even) that you can use to connect to your bank account. They are just not made for mobile.
> basic services like Uber
Again, manufactured demand. There is nothing "basic" about Uber and we could go by in any big city without it before 2010.
> public transit navigation/timetables
There are free alternatives for Linux and ungoogled-android.
> group chats with family
Use Matrix, bridge it with whatever the others want to use.
> We all have a threshold where it's just not worth it.
Right. The problem is that you seem to be too quick to fold.
Yes. As I mentioned, students and people on the edge of poverty must keep a vigilant watch on their bank balance, lest they literally run out of money (or hit an overdraft, or an overdraft limit, and therefore have to pay banking charges) while shopping.
> how much of the modern world is driven by manufactured demand?
Rent is expensive, and rather essential.
> Plenty of budgeting/accounting software out there (free software, even) that you can use to connect to your bank account.
Majority of banks where I am don't expose an API. CSV exports don't cut it on GNUCash, and I tried it.
> There is nothing "basic" about Uber and we could go by in any big city without it before 2010.
Please realise that black cabs and taxis cost a fortune in some cities. An extensive public transit network doesn't help at all if you're stuck at the edge of a city, the transit network has already shut down because it's 2am, and you don't have any family or friends nearby to rescue you. This has happened more than once to me, and in the pre-Uber era, my only choices would be to eat the huge cost of a taxi or spend the night sleeping/waiting it out on a bench until things reopen.
> There are free alternatives for Linux and ungoogled-android.
You cannot assume that. Your city has this, it doesn't mean that mine does.
> The problem is that you seem to be too quick to fold
You think I'm too quick to fold, but have you considered that I spent over a decade trying to defend my privacy? That I gave up many, many things, to the extent that family and friends who don't share my beliefs would think I'm weird if they knew the full extent of what I've done? Having a pain tolerance makes me human, not weak. And it's already much higher than the average person's.
- Even if a bank does not have a mobile app, they still have a website which you can then access from any phone with a web browser. It does not depend on an Android/iOS app.
- Even if your city does not have an alternative app like Magic Earth (doubtful) you can just use the Google Maps website.
- Uber also does not require the app: https://www.uber.com/en-GB/blog/request-uber-online-without-...
I do have an iMac that's at least a decade old. I should install Linux since the OS isn't supported anymore, but it seems like it's had a good run.
Given that Google only updates Android for half as many years on a Pixel phone, there is planned obsolescence in play here, but not from Apple.