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Re:What the Omicron wave is revealing about human immunity by altcognito on Thursday February 03, 2022 @07:30PM (#30201138)
Let the surgeons know.

Yes, compliance and knowing how to wear a mask has been an issue. That's not the same thing as "masks don't work."

This is a random place to put this, but I just want to point out that I think for the most part even mask wearing is not required anymore (unless you are sick, but why are you going anywhere sick?)

Part of the reason I put it here is that I want to make sure it's understood that despite the fact I'm pretty pro-vax, pro-mask and generally supported the lockdowns at the time -- we're past all that for now with Omicron. Things are still a mess, and the facts on the ground could change, but I think it's important that everybody gets on the same page that we're moving on.

Re:What the Omicron wave is revealing about human immunity by wrp on Thursday February 03, 2022 @09:49PM (#30202198)
> Let the surgeons know.

The surgeons already know. Since the 1990s, there has been a general movement away from using surgical masks in the OR, due to accumulating evidence that they have no effect. (For example, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4480558/)

Re:What the Omicron wave is revealing about human immunity by lejohnq on Thursday February 03, 2022 @11:19PM (#30202824)
That link doesn’t indicate “accumulating evidence that they have no effect”, and the link explicitly states “it would be imprudent to recommend the removal of facemasks from surgery”.

It is a literature review that didn’t find strong evidence for surgical mask effectiveness more because it hasn’t been researched deeply. And it notes that the absence of evidence does not indicate ineffectiveness of surgical masks, and rather a more significant research trial would have to be performed (and there were caveats to the feasibility of doing that as well).

Specific quotes from that article:

“What literature that is available on the subject tends to be dated with poorly explained methodology. There is also uncertainty over whether the results of such studies can be extrapolated to current surgical practice given the advent of new antiseptic techniques since they were completed.”

“It is clear that more studies are required before any absolute conclusions can be drawn regarding the effectiveness or, indeed, ineffectiveness of surgical masks. The published literature does suggest that it may be reasonable to further examine the need for masks in contemporary surgical practice given the interests of comfort, budget constraints and potential ease of communication, although any such study would undoubtedly have to be large and well controlled to prove causality given the low event frequency of surgical site infections.”

“It is important not to construe an absence of evidence for effectiveness with evidence for the absence of effectiveness. While there is a lack of evidence supporting the effectiveness of facemasks, there is similarly a lack of evidence supporting their ineffectiveness. With the information currently available, it would be imprudent to recommend the removal of facemasks from surgery. Instead, in the medical field where common practice can so easily become dogma, it is necessary to recognise the constant need to maintain a healthy scepticism towards established beliefs and to periodically re-evaluate and critically assess their scientific merit.”

Re:What the Omicron wave is revealing about human immunity by wrp on Friday February 04, 2022 @04:54AM (#30204791)
The selected quotes misrepresent the thrust of the article. From the abstract, "...overall there is a lack of substantial evidence to support claims that facemasks protect either patient or surgeon from infectious contamination."

At the end, they take the stance that while evidence doesn't support any benefit, it doesn't indicate harm either, so might as well continue using masks.

I don't deny that this is still a matter of controversy, compare Romney (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11289767/) with Belkin (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11886203/).

The most frequent complaint is that most research on the subject is not high quality, but what about those studies that are good? The most thorough clinical study is Tunevall (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1853618/), which clearly supports no benefit. There are apparently no high quality studies that support benefit.

Re:What the Omicron wave is revealing about human immunity by spookthesunset on Thursday February 03, 2022 @11:55PM (#30203037)
Show me any research done before the pandemic demonstrating that cloth masks do anything that justifies their forced use.

Doesn’t exist.

I dont like being used as a lab rat. I refuse to participate in this uncontrolled experiment these public health experts are conducting.

Re:What the Omicron wave is revealing about human immunity by vondur on Thursday February 03, 2022 @08:24PM (#30201601)
Masks are still required where I live, yet we have some of the highest infection rates in the country. (Southern California)
Re:What the Omicron wave is revealing about human immunity by throwaway1777 on Thursday February 03, 2022 @07:47PM (#30201278)
Sounds like we basically agree even though we are coming at it from different angles.
Re:What the Omicron wave is revealing about human immunity by altcognito on Friday February 04, 2022 @11:42AM (#30209132)
Not really. I'm saying masks work and mandates are necessary public health policy.

Regardless of a mandate, people will do what they do even if it's not in their best interests, or in the interests of their loved ones, or the interests of their neighbors. They will smoke in public places, they will goto work sick, they will drive drunk. Frankly put, people can be jerks. So you put a mandate out there, and you do your best.

Masks work. In areas where mask utilization is high, there is good air filtration and people follow distancing rules, the spread is slowed.